DavideD
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Data Recovery 2.0 and symantec NetBackup integration

Hello,

we are planning a customer upgrade from ESX 3.5/VCB to vSphere5/DataRecovery. the customer has NetBackup as tape backup solution, today integrated with VCB to stream VM backups to tape.

I haven't found any documentation how to integrate DataRecovery jobs to NetBackup, in order to mantain the existing backup infrastructure.

Does anyone help me ?

Thanks in advance

Regards

Davide

Skype: davide_depaoli - Linkedin: http://it.linkedin.com/in/davidedepaoli
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11 Replies
wcpreston
Contributor
Contributor

VDR and NetBackup are two tools to do the same job.  VDR is meant as a standalone way to backup VMware if you don't have a commercial option (like VMware) to do it.  So you will never see VDR backing up to any commercial tool like NBU, AFAICS.

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DavideD
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Hi,

for example there is a whitepaper for VEEAM Backup & Replication to integrate it with NetBackup, using a B&R Post Job Script, that runs NetBackup job to stream the B&R backup to tape.

Is not possible with VDR something like that ?

Thank you

Davide

Skype: davide_depaoli - Linkedin: http://it.linkedin.com/in/davidedepaoli
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wcpreston
Contributor
Contributor

Sure.  You could do the same level of integration as Veeam can.  dump your stuff to a disk that NBU backs up.  I don't really call that integration.

DavideD
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

OK.

thank you

Davide

Skype: davide_depaoli - Linkedin: http://it.linkedin.com/in/davidedepaoli
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rash127
Contributor
Contributor

Hi Davide,

   Since you said VCB integration, I think your customer is using NetBackup 6.5.x. I would recommend asking them to upgrade to 7.x. Any NetBackup customer with maintenance can upgrade to 7.x for free. Once you go to 7.x, the licensing for VMware is also simple and cheaper. NetBackup for VMware provides a lot more than what VDR provides. Since you already have the license to use NetBackup for VMware, I would highly recommend to take advantage of it rather than using a point product and then protecting that product with NetBackup. You get single-pane-of-glass management. You get to make use of V-Ray capabilities (single backup, multiple levels of restores), Block level incremental backups, Automatic VM protection, full protection for vCenter server and much more. For an overview check this site: http://www.symantec.com/theme.jsp?themeid=vray

  For in-depth technical details on some of the nuts and bolts in NetBackup for VMware, see my blog series in Symantec Connect http://www.symantec.com/connect/blogs/nuts-and-bolts-netbackup-vmware

Disclaimer: I work for Symantec. Comments here are my own.

Warm regards,

Rasheed

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vJamie
Contributor
Contributor

Hi,

Whoa- I am not so sure about the "licensing for VMware is also simple and cheaper"

All of the options Rash talks about are if you have enterprise licences.

If you currently only have standard licencing for your server and clients then you are in for a shock.

I just went through this exercise (as we had standard NBU licencing) and there is now two options;

Pay per 'front end' terabyte, and the standard licence model (pay per client licence, server licence, per tape licence etc etc)

If you go the per terabyte model- all the enterprise stuff is included (except deduplication) so you can go nuts but it is costly.

This is ok if you only backup a few TB.

If you go the standard licence model then you have to buy an enterprise client licence for each Vmware host to use the vStorage APIs.

Note you will need a enterprise server licence to deploy the enterprise client. If you need to upgrade your licences this can be costly.

In the end it was cheaper for us to keep the standard licencing and spend $25k on veeam to backup the VMs to disk. I then write the veeam images to tape with netbackup. I use VDR for our dev hosts only.

Be careful- read the symantec fine print!!!

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rash127
Contributor
Contributor

Hi vJaime,

   Thank you for sharing your experience. You had a situation where enterprise license was not in use. The ala carte model plus the need for you to upgrade to enterprise server and client turned out to be costly. I shall certainly take your feedback to product management team in Symantec.

  Davide has a different situation here. From his statement that the customer is currently using VCB integration with older NetBackup 6.5, I can conclude that his customer already has enterprise client (enterprise client offers much more than just VMware support), so I do think it is a good idea for him to make use of NetBackup for VMware by upgrading to 7.x. Why pay for a point product when his customer already has the license to use advanced NetBackup features for VMware?

Warm regards,

Rasheed

Disclaimer: I work for SYMC, comments are my own.

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vJamie
Contributor
Contributor

Hi,

"Why pay for a point product when his customer already has the license to use advanced NetBackup features for VMware?"

These are the reasons I found;

- Veeam has a method to test to see if the OS boots after backup (surebackup)

- has the Lab thing,so you can use a backup file to launch the VM in a virtual lab (good for testing)

- it can boot from the backup file directly - to get a machine up and runnig quickly, then copy it over to production storage later

- you dont have to pay any extra for deduplication and the large machine to process it.

- Veeam+ Standard Netbackup is cheaper if you have more than 4-5 TB to backup (consider licence downgrade??)

- What if the business you work for adds another server and you have to backup another TB? -this adds thousands of dollars to your netbackup bill each year.

The reason I still use Netbackup is for tape management (and this is still a bit rough as you have to buy a 'Vault" add on for offsite rotations).

Note; I am a system admin-   I don't work for any IT Vendor.

My main point here is do the research- check every word of the marketing pitch and check the costs - now and LATER.

Cheers,

Jamie

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rash127
Contributor
Contributor

Hi Jaime,

  I don’t want say what you should pick. Each environment is different and the administrator does the right research to find something suitable for his/her environment. That statement "Why pay for a point product when his customer already has the license to use advanced NetBackup features for VMware?", wasn’t directed to questioning your decision. It was a statement for David’s customer as he/she has invested in NetBackup enterprise client.

  I disclosed that I work for Symantec in accordance with social media policy for its employees when we participate in discussions like this. The comments are entirely my own.

  As an active VMware user and VCP, I shall share some of my responses to your points. Please don’t treat these the wrong way, I am sharing my thoughts and I am not ‘perfect’.  I understand that each person has his/her own reasons to make a choice for his organization during the purchase cycle.

- Veeam has a method to test to see if the OS boots after backup (surebackup)

[Rasheed] DCIG had explained the reason behind it: http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/new-data-center/veeams-surebackup-feature-may-do-nothing-more-than-forev...

- has the Lab thing,so you can use a backup file to launch the VM in a virtual lab (good for testing)

[Rasheed] Yes, I agree with you on the idea.

- it can boot from the backup file directly - to get a machine up and runnig quickly, then copy it over to production storage later

[Rasheed] This one does not impress me much. It sounds great right of the bat. This is good if your backup storage is fast and if it acceptable to run the production machine from underpowered storage. Many of the dedupe storage vendors had recommended against running the VM from their storage or provided tweaks to make such a thing to work. HP did tests with Veeam using HP StoreOnce target deduplication appliance and have published a white paper on this, please see this whitepaper in Business Week: http://whitepapers.businessweek.com/detail/RES/1312227098_500.html  . See the section on Performance Considerations.

- you dont have to pay any extra for deduplication and the large machine to process it.

[Rasheed] I am afraid you are mistaken on this one. The technology used there is a combination of block tracking and compression that works only within a backup job. Why do you think Veeam recommends using devices like Exagrid and Data Domain for backup storage?

- Veeam+ Standard Netbackup is cheaper if you have more than 4-5 TB to backup (consider licence downgrade??)

- What if the business you work for adds another server and you have to backup another TB? -this adds thousands of dollars to your netbackup bill each year.

[Rasheed] NetBackup provides both traditional and capacity based licensing. With any product you either have to pay for per seat or for capacity. I am not sure if I understand your question here. Isn’t it normal for a vendor to charge for additional servers (if using per-seat model) or capacity (if using the capacity model)?

Once again, let me conclude this by stating that the comments here are my own and I don’t get specific incentives to participate in this thread. I am a VCP who is passionate about virtualization technologies.  Please do not treat my comments here as those of my employer!

Warm regards,

Rasheed

The usual disclaimer: I work for SYMC. Comments are my own.

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vJamie
Contributor
Contributor

Hi,

just to clarify one of my comments and I am happy to leave at that-

when I said -

- What if the business you work for adds another server and you have to backup another TB? -this adds thousands of dollars to your netbackup bill each year.

I was trying to say that with the older licence model this would cost about $1500 for a licence to backup the whole server regardless of the size of the data- (also if you decide not to buy support each year this is a one off cost) but with the per terabyte model I was getting quotes for about $5K per terabyte per year ... so adding just one server with a decent size disk adds a significant annual expense under this pricing model.

On the other hand if you have lots of small servers and dont expect your company to add more servers, - the per terabyte model makes more sense.

I am in Australia so maybe these costs and licence arrangements are different than where you reside - ??

The reason I posted (long time reader, fist time poster) is to help the OP understand that the statements you (made in my opinion) are 'one size fits all', and that other options are available and may be a better fit for his client's environment.

Care needs to be made when dealing with the large costs involved licencing these types of products, especially when a year or two later you end up with much larger and unexpected bill.

Thats all. 

Cheers,

Jamie

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rash127
Contributor
Contributor

Thanks Jaime. I would be sure to take your feedback to product management team. I am sure that they will appreciate feedback from customers like you.

Warm regards,

Rasheed

Disclaimer: I work for Symantec. Comments are my own.

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