tk1234
Contributor
Contributor

10.5.7 update graphics issue

VMWare, thanks for the update regarding it's effect on 3d acceleration with ATI cards. Question: Is 3D accel similarly broken for NVidia cards? I have the Geforce 8800GT.

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62 Replies
RiteshK
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Vmware fusions uses only SVGA card.

VMware SVGA card is the virtual GPU , VMware SVGA card has a physical graphics card that is its own brand and has its own pixel and vertex shaders and its own memory buffer.

I do not think that you will be able touse ATI card on fusion..

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WoodyZ
Immortal
Immortal

Question: Is 3D accel similarly broken for NVidia cards? I have the Geforce 8800GT.

I have not seen anything the indicates there is a problem with nVidia Graphics Adapters although it still might be to soon to say 100%.

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WoodyZ
Immortal
Immortal

Vmware fusions uses only SVGA card.

Only if VMware Tools are installed does it use the VMware SVGA II.

VMware SVGA card has a physical graphics card that is its own brand

Oh really it a physical card?! I don't think so! (Actually I know so but I'm just making a point making a point.) That would be a real neat trick, download and install the VMware Fusion software and it installs a physical graphics adapter.

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davidliu
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

The issue is with the ATI driver that ships in 10.5.7. nVidia cards should not be affected.

BTW, I blogged it on Team Fusion blog as well: http://blogs.vmware.com/teamfusion/2009/05/a-message-to-mac-users-with-atibased-system-about-apples-...

-David

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admin
Immortal
Immortal

We know of one very serious issue with Nvidia graphics cards (it causes a host lockup), but have had workarounds in place to avoid it since Fusion 2.0.2 but we didn't get the GT120/130 parts in that workaround. As far as I know, our internal QA hasn't found any new issues for Nvidia hardware that weren't there in 10.5.6.

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dlhotka
Champion
Champion

Didn't you guys have the beta releases? Why did you wait until AFTER release to post that notice? Terrible, horrible support.

There's a whole team of folks at my company that are now screwed.

I note in passing that it didn't break Parallels, so how on earth could this be an Apple/ATI problem and not a VMWare one?

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bgertzfield
Commander
Commander

Didn't you guys have the beta releases? Why did you wait until AFTER release to post that notice? Terrible, horrible support.

Hi dlhotka,

We're really sorry for the inconvenience.

I've personally been in contact with Apple and ATI regarding this issue for quite some time. We tried to get them to provide a fix or a workaround, but they weren't able to provide one in time.

Unfortunately, our agreement with Apple states that we can't talk about pre-release versions of their OS without their approval. We posted notice about this as soon as we were allowed to.

I note in passing that it didn't break Parallels, so how on earth could this be an Apple/ATI problem and not a VMWare one?

This is a bug in the ATI GLSL shader path. Parallels generates GLSL shaders in a different way, so they didn't tickle the ATI bug.

We're working closely with ATI to get a fix out there for you folks. Please stay tuned, we know how painful this is.

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dlhotka
Champion
Champion

Interesting. A shame that you couldn't have posted a note that says 'We will make an important statement on 10.5.7 compatibility after release'.

Any idea on an ETA? Days, weeks, months?

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bgertzfield
Commander
Commander

Any idea on an ETA? Days, weeks, months?

We're waiting on ATI and Apple, so we don't yet have an ETA. I know they're actively working on a fix, but getting it through QA and getting it out to customers takes a little while.

Again, apologies for the inconvenience.

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dlhotka
Champion
Champion

Well, this'll teach me to post before testing. We misunderstood the breadth of the issue, but after testing, our applications work fine. Apparently it's not something that non-gamers would hit, right?

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WoodyZ
Immortal
Immortal

Well, this'll teach me to post before testing.

Real swift!

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bgertzfield
Commander
Commander

Well, this'll teach me to post before testing. We misunderstood the breadth of the issue, but after testing, our applications work fine. Apparently it's not something that non-gamers would hit, right?

That's right. You probably won't run into issues unless you're running heavy 3D loads with Direct3D shaders, like games or benchmarks.

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kramy
Contributor
Contributor

Hey there,

Is this still an issue?

Can't find any recent news on this.... thanks!

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WoodyZ
Immortal
Immortal

Is this still an issue?

Can't find any recent news on this.... thanks!

It is still at the top of VMware Communities > VMTN > Desktop Products > VMware Fusion so basically nothing has changed and when it does so will the message at the top of the provided link.

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kramy
Contributor
Contributor

Thanks WoodyZ - guess I will have to be patient :smileygrin:

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admin
Immortal
Immortal

Alternatively, you can go bug apple about releasing an update. If the complaints come directly from their users they might be more likely to respond.

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dlhotka
Champion
Champion

Um, if it's an Apple issue, then why doesn't it affect Parallels?

From a previous posting, evidently it's because they use a different method of implementing the function. Well, why not change the method you use to work around the issue?

There seem to be a number of architectural issues with how Fusion is constructed, from this, to the keyboard lockout bug (blamed on a third-party library), and others. Or am I just not seeing issues publicized as widely with Parallels (Fusion seems to get all the bad press).

FWIW, I did hit the issue, and had to disable 3d acceleration as a result. Most applications are fine, but a few just crawl. The application just didn't work in windowed mode, but actually crashed the VM (got the 'serious error' message) when in full screen.

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admin
Immortal
Immortal

Um, if it's an Apple issue, then why doesn't it affect Parallels?

Same reason why any update might break one application but not others - apps work in different ways and make different sets of calls.

From a previous posting, evidently it's because they use a different method of implementing the function. Well, why not change the method you use to work around the issue?

Yes, technically we could rewrite our graphics acceleration stack to work around this bug (which would involve extensive testing to figure out exactly which conditions the bug manifests, plus figuring out how to avoid it). Or we could let ATI/Apple fix it (which they say they're working on), since it's an obvious, serious regression.

There seem to be a number of architectural issues with how Fusion is constructed, from this, to the keyboard lockout bug (blamed on a third-party library), and others. Or am I just not seeing issues publicized as widely with Parallels (Fusion seems to get all the bad press).

If you're talking about the SecureInput problem, Apple even has a Tech Note admitting to the issue, and we were not the only app affected - if that doesn't satisfy you, I'm not sure what will.

Parallels has their own share of issues, check out their forums.

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dlhotka
Champion
Champion

Fair enough on the graphics issue, and the secure input was the issue. I guess I'm just frustrated that we didn't have advance notice to not upgrade because of a known issue. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised on how long it's taking since Apple still hasn't updated Java (more than 6 months). Too bad there's not a way to just disable the shaders and leave the rest active.

And as noted, I don't use Parallels (we're a VMWare company - with thousands of installs), and on reflection, I suppose we don't see their issues make MacWorld because they're a consumer company, rather than an enterprise solution.

May be a moot point though - the new MBP released today might just be making it's way to my desk (and it has an Nvidia chip) :-).

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