dempson Tracker

Re: Running 32-bit Mac Intel apps on an Apple Silicon MacBook Pro

dempson — Tue, 07 Nov 2023 00:18:16 GMT

No.

Virtualisation products (including VMware Fusion and Parallels Desktop) require the guest and host to be the same processor architecture. That means you cannot run an older Intel-only version of macOS (i.e. macOS 10.15 Catalina or earlier) on an Apple Silicon Mac using virtualisation.

(VMware Fusion doesn't support macOS guests at all on an Apple Silicon Mac, but there are other products including some free ones which can use Apple's lightweight virtualisation to run macOS 12 Monterey or later in a VM on an Apple Silicon Mac. That won't help you run 32-bit Intel applications.)

Apple's Rosetta 2 technology allows 64-bit Intel applications to run on an Apple Silicon Mac (provided the application is compatible with the version of macOS), but it does not support 32-bit Intel applications.

The only way you might be able to run macOS 10.14 Mojave or earlier on an Apple Silicon Mac is to use an emulation product such as UTM (which uses QEMU to implement the emulation). Their web site doesn't mention running macOS 10.x via emulation (just one example of Mac OS 9.x which must be PowerPC rather than Intel).

That possibly means there is no way at present to run 32-bit-only Intel applications on an Apple Silicon Mac.

To avoid this sort of headache, I've made sure to keep a working Intel Mac which is able to run older software I still occasionally need (and a spare in case that one breaks).

Re: Creating older Mac OS VM - "No operating system found"

dempson — Fri, 03 Nov 2023 04:38:23 GMT

At least in the older versions of VMware Fusion I'm familiar with and the one I have handy (Fusion 12.1.2 running on macOS Catalina):

For each step where you need to create a macOS VM and and have already got the "Install macOS [version].app" file using the previous instructions:

Click on the + button above the list of VMs and choose New. This brings up a sheet with "Select the Installation Method".
Go to your Applications folder and drag the "Install macOS [version].app" application onto the rectangle in the above sheet which says "Install from disc or image". [This is what I meant by "Point it to the installer application".]
The application should be accepted and appear in a revised sheet which now says "Create a New Virtual Machine"
Click Continue.
Customize settings if necessary (e.g. you may want more storage).
Click Finish to proceed with creating the VM.

I didn't take it any further as I don't actually want to create another VM at the moment, but from memory the next part is the VM starts up into the macOS installer, which it mounts from the disk image inside the application.

One problem you might run into is if you managed to download a "stub only" version of the installer, which is a potential issue with the installers for macOS High Sierra and later where Apple split the download into two stages.

If you run into that problem, you may need to use the createinstallmedia command line tool inside the stub installer to create a bootable installer on another volume, then use that to set up the VM instead of using the application directly.

Re: Cannot get Migration Assistant to import external OSX 10.7 to Guest OSX 10.7 in Fusion 13

dempson — Fri, 13 Oct 2023 23:28:13 GMT

@Tony030942 wrote:
OK. failure!
1. Deleted Guest account in Fusion. Opened up 2007 iMac and connected via USB3.0 cable, (I have no USB2.0). I created a new Lion Guest iso and installed it. Set up process to Migration Assistant; ensured 2007 iMac Migration Assistant was set ‘To another Mac’ then tried to select source which Guest Lion could not find.

That won't work. "To Another Mac" mode implies "via a network". You cannot run a network over a USB cable from a 2007 iMac.

The Target Disk Mode method I mentioned in my previous message also won't work via USB - the source Mac is the one that needs to be in this mode, and the 2007 iMac does not support USB Target Disk Mode (this feature was introduced for the USB-C ports on the 12-inch MacBook, because those models don't do Thunderbolt).

2. Noting that Migration Assistant asked for the computer to be connected to same network via Ethernet I ditched USB and connected via Ethernet. No source computer found! I checked Ethernet connection and found the source computer confirmed connection as did the 2019 iMac.

As I explained in my previous message, you won't be able to get migration to a VM working via Ethernet (or Wi-Fi) because of limitations in networking imposed by Apple's hypervisor in macOS Big Sur and later. Your best chance of getting this working would be if the newer Mac was running macOS Catalina and you were doing this in VMware Fusion 12.1.2.

I've just done a partial test of this on my setup:

Source computer is a 2009 Mac Mini running macOS 10.11 El Capitan (I don't have any Macs running Lion to test with). Connected to my LAN by Ethernet. Ran Migration Assistant, put it in "To Another Mac" mode.

Target computer is a macOS El Capitan VM running in VMware Fusion 12.1.2 on my 2019 MacBook Pro booted into macOS 10.15 Catalina. Host Mac also connected via Ethernet to my LAN. VM network is configured for Bridged mode. Ran Migration Assistant, put in "From Another Mac" mode.

The VM can see the Mac Mini as a source, I confirmed the random number ID to allow the network connection, and I was able to get as far as the category/folder selection screen (didn't bother to transfer anything as I don't want to do that).

Repeated the test, this time with the VM network in NAT mode which should be similar to what you get with VMware Fusion 13 on a newer macOS. To ensure nothing was remembered, I also restarted the VM . This time, the VM takes longer to show the Mac Mini as a potential source, but fails to connect to it, therefore as I thought, NAT breaks the ability to connect for a networked migration.

3. Created a new Guest Account running Yosamite 10.10.2. Tried Migration Assistant as above with both USB3.0 and Ethernet cables. Source disks could not be found.

Same problems as above. The version of macOS in the guest is not the problem. It is the version of macOS on the host (and as a side effect, limitations imposed on VMware Fusion guest networking).

I do not have a USB2.0 dock but with USB2.0 ports on the 2007 iMac directly connected that should be irrelevent?

The iMac has USB-A ports. It always acts as a USB host. You need a USB 2.0 peripheral (with USB-B or the mini/micro variant) to be able to connect the source to the VM running Lion.

With your attempt in [3] above, Yosemite is also too old to support USB 3.0 so it would also need to be set to USB 2.0 mode.

If you had a VM with El Capitan or later, that is new enough to support USB 3.1, which should allow a migration with your backup drive as a source (not directly from the iMac), but that will run into the problem that the applications you want to run don't work properly in a system newer than Lion.

The USB 3.1 cable should work as it is backwards compatible. My old external LaCie drive connectivity is either Firewire 400 and 800, or USB3.0.

A USB-A to USB-C (3.1) cable between two Macs won't achieve anything - the old Mac with USB-A can only act as a host and does not support USB-C alternate modes or peer-to-peer, the new Mac will also be trying to act as a USB host, so they cannot even see each other.

The LaCie drive's Firewire won't get you anywhere (Firewire and Thunderbolt cannot be bridged to a VM because they are too low-level), USB 3.0 won't work with a macOS VM running Yosemite or earlier because the VM has to be in USB 2.0 mode and Fusion cannot bridge the different USB versions together (unless you have an intervening USB 2.0 hub).

These options occur to me for ways you could migrate your 2007 iMac (or its backup) to a Lion VM.

(a) Try using a USB 2.0 cable with your LaCie drive. If the drive has a Micro-USB 3.0 connector, then you need a cable with a Micro-USB 2.0 plug (missing the "sidecar"). If the drive has a USB-B 3.0 connector, then you need a cable with a USB-B 2.0 plug (missing the "second layer"). If the drive works at all with that cable, then it will be in USB 2.0 mode when plugged into your Fusion hosting Mac, and Fusion should be able to remap it to the guest, and it can be the source for the migration.

(b) Locate a USB 2.0 hub (must have its own power supply), connect the LaCie drive to that and the hub to the Fusion hosting Mac, map it to the guest.

(c) Locate an old enough hard drive which is USB 2.0, clone your 2007 iMac to that, then plug it directly into the Fusion hosting Mac, map it to the guest.

(d) I haven't tried this (any comments from others?), but if you have plenty of disk space on the host Mac, a disk image might be an option. You would need to clone the LaCie drive to a disk image on the Fusion hosting Mac, then connect that disk image to the VM in way that makes it appear to be an attached drive, then Migration/Setup assistant should let you use it as a source to migrate into the VM.

(e) Use VMware Fusion 12 running on Catalina, so you can use bridged networking and do a migration via Ethernet. Steps:

Get an licence for Fusion 12 (Player is free for personal use, downgrade from 13 required if you need a paid licence).
Install macOS Catalina on a second volume on your Mac (you can add a volume in Disk Utility without mucking around with partitioning, and they will share free space).
Boot into the Catalina volume, set it up as required, install VMware Fusion 12. Must be Fusion 12.1.2 or earlier, not 12.2 or later.
Create a new Lion VM, ideally on a third volume which is accessible from both Catalina and current macOS systems (this is how my 2019 MacBook Pro is set up).
Set networking on the Lion VM to bridged mode.
You should then be able to migrate from the 2007 iMac via Ethernet (with the 2007 iMac in “To another Mac” mode) during initial setup of the Lion VM system.
Once the migration is complete and you have tested the VM to your satisfaction, you should be able to shut down the VM, boot into your current OS on the host, and run the current VMware Fusion and use the same VM.

Re: Cannot get Migration Assistant to import external OSX 10.7 to Guest OSX 10.7 in Fusion 13

dempson — Thu, 12 Oct 2023 11:30:45 GMT

An initial comment: I agree with ColoradoMarmot that you should be doing the migration while Setup Assistant is running during initial setup of Lion after it was installed, as that produces a better outcome with older macOS versions (newer versions are better at replacing accounts but you can still end up with user iD number mismatches if you aren't careful).

That is probably not the reason you are having trouble with this.

I'm curious why you want to go to the trouble of running Lion in a VM. Do you have applications which are incompatible with a somewhat newer macOS version such as El Capitan? That would probably be easier due to supporting USB 3.0, and it can migrate from a source which was running Lion.

One point you need to be aware of: even if you manage to migrate your Lion system to a VM (running any macOS version), you may find that some of your applications don't work properly in a VM due to the lack of 3D graphics support for macOS guests. There was experimental 3D support in later macOS versions but it doesn't work for older macOS versions which you may need for legacy applications.

There are some surprising cases, e.g. Apple's iWork '09 suite (or earlier) uses 3D graphics to render all documents, so when run in a VM its document windows are blank (apart from the controls around the edges).

@Tony030942 wrote:
I have external drives visible on Host desktop but Fusion 13 window identifies the external drive 'Lion (ASMedia ASM1156-PM)' offering me the option of importing to Host or Guest then states "unable to connect to its ideal host controller.” I am warned connection may make MVware unstable. I go ahead and click import and that is the end of the process. No external drive icon on Guest Lion desktop. Finder has external disk ticked in preferences for visibility along with HDD and iMacs etc.

You should be choosing the Guest option at that point.

As noted in the earlier thread and you mentioned having already done this: you need to have set VMware Fusion to use USB 2.0 mode for a Lion guest, because Lion doesn't support USB 3.0.

USB 2.0 support in Fusion can be problematic with peripherals that also support USB 3.0, due to the way that USB controllers are logically separated in the host Mac. If the host Mac and drive both support USB 3.0, the drive will connect to the Mac using USB 3.0 and will not be visible to the USB 2.0 controller. VMware Fusion is trying to map the drive to the guest from the USB 2.0 controller, but it isn't there so nothing appears in the guest.

Try this: plug the drive into a hub which only supports USB 2.0 and not USB 3.0. That forces the drive to be in USB 2.0 mode, and forces the Mac to connect it to the USB 2.0 controller, where VMware Fusion should be able to map it to the guest.

I assume Migration assistant wants a Mac attached.

Every version of Migration or Setup Assistant supports an external drive as the source (e.g. a clone of the source Mac, or a Time Machine backup of the source Mac).

When two real Macs are involved, the source Mac can also be in "Target Disk Mode" (originally Firewire, later Thunderbolt, a few Macs can do this via USB) but this probably won't work if you are trying to migrate to a VM guest: Firewire or Thunderbolt remapping is not possible, USB will run into the same problem with USB 3.0 vs 2.0 if it is even supported by your source Mac.

The network-based method (with the source Mac running Migration Assistant in "To another Mac" mode) was added as a feature of Migration/Setup assistant somewhere around Snow Leopard. This could potentially work with a Fusion guest as the destination, but in order to do so, the VM guest and the other Mac must be on the same local network so that they can see each other via Bonjour. With older versions of VMware Fusion running on older versions of macOS, this was possible by having the guest network in bridged mode, but recent versions (Fusion 12.2 and later running on macOS Big Sur or later) use the Apple Hypervisor which limits some networking options. If your guest network is going through a NAT layer then your Lion guest won't be able to see the source Mac.

Is this a limitation caused by the free, basic application?

Certainly not for the USB connection method, and probably not for the network method.

Fusion Professional (not just paying for Fusion Player) adds some extra networking features, but can't get around limitations imposed by Apple's hypervisor on macOS Big Sur and later.

Due to these sorts of limitations with Apple's hypervisor, I'm still using Fusion 12.1.x on macOS Catalina. As I only need to run my VMs occasionally, my 2019 16-inch MacBook Pro is set up with two startup volumes: it normally starts up into a reasonably current macOS version, and I reboot onto the Catalina volume if I need to run Fusion. This is not my primary Mac so rebooting is not an inconvenience.

My use of old macOS VMs is mostly for comparison or historic curiosity, plus a small selection of occasionally needed applications which I've confirmed work OK in a VM. I installed them fresh, never bothered migrating anything to a VM.

For applications which don't work in a VM (or don't make sense due to hardware requirements) I'm keeping a few working old Macs with older macOS versions. Mac Minis are good for this due to size, with a shared monitor/keyboard/mouse (or accessing only via a network and some kind of screen sharing).

Re: 8.5.10 suddenly giving This virtual machine was created by a newer version of VMware Fusion erro

dempson — Wed, 09 Aug 2023 02:26:06 GMT

@havinabubble wrote:
But why has ALL my guest OS suddenly changed to thinking they have been created on a newer version? (when they haven't).

A thought which occurred to me:

Where are your VMs stored on your daily driver iMac? In particular, are they stored in a folder which is being synced with a cloud service, such as Dropbox or iCloud Drive? iCloud Drive potentially includes the Desktop and Documents folders and everything under them, depending on whether that option is chosen in System Preferences > iCloud > iCloud Drive.

The unexpected upgrade of your VMs might be explained if they are being synced with another Mac running a newer version of VMware Fusion, and changes made on that newer version are being synced back to the Mac running the older version.

If I'm right, this is a very bad idea - apart from the risk of this sort of issue, VMs are inherently not safe to store in locations that are synced with cloud services, because the VM frequently modifies parts of files and needs to do coordinated changes to multiple files, which may not sync reliably, resulting in file corruption and/or a bad copy of the VM in the cloud (or other computers to which it is also synced). Another problem is that the cloud sync service might decide to evict some files from local storage if it thinks they aren't in active use, which could break the VM.

Re: Fusio Error code VMDB -14 Pipe connection has been broken

dempson — Tue, 18 Jul 2023 02:07:23 GMT

I own several Mac Minis spanning examples of each major generation of the design and processor architecture. Some of the later Intel ones (especially the 2012 and 2018, the latter had a minor tweak in 2020) had fairly good high end configurations for CPU cores and memory as long as you weren't worried about GPU performance. I also have an M1 Mac mini for testing (deliberately bought with minimal specs). I haven't bought any of the M2 models yet but am keeping a close eye on the options should the need arise.

The current M2 and M2 Pro models are good candidates for running ARM VMs, and the Apple Silicon GPUs are a lot better than Intel's ones. Basically go for the M2 Pro if you want more CPU, GPU, memory, Thunderbolt ports, displays, or need more than 2 TB internal storage and are willing to pay Apple's excessive storage upgrade prices.

Note that if you are considering a Mac Mini with M2 Pro and intend to upgrade any of the components from base level, you should do a comparison with the Mac Studio with M2 Max: the price is basically identical if you get the Mac Mini with M2 Pro and upgrade CPU/GPU, 32 GB memory and 10 Gbit Ethernet, compared to the base Mac Studio with M2 Max - the latter has yet more GPU cores and supported displays, and adds the front ports, at the cost of a taller body with a bigger cooling system (reports are that the fans in the M2 generation of Mac Studio are usually silent, unlike the previous M1 generation).

The Mac Studio can step up even further to the M2 Ultra, which doubles the starting price for twice as much of everything internal (and the two front USB-C ports become Thunderbolt).

Re: unable to run openshift on a RHEL 9.1 virtual machine

dempson — Wed, 12 Jul 2023 23:05:28 GMT

Given the symptoms and one other key detail mentioned, I'm pretty sure the original post has the name of the computer wrong: a 2019 Mac Pro would have a Xeon processor, not an "8-core Intel Core i9". A 2019 MacBook Pro would.have the latter processor.

There are two variants of the Core i9 used in 2019 MacBook Pros (mid 2019 15-inch and late 2019 16-inch).

2.3 GHz 8-core Core i9 (9880H)
2.4 GHz 8-core Core i9 (9980HK)

The 2.3 GHz was the standard processor in the more expensive base model. The 2.4 GHz was a custom upgrade for any base model.

Of the two, the cheaper 2.3 GHz Core i9 (9880H) supports vPro and VMCS shadowing, but the more expensive 2.4 GHz Core i9 (9980HK) does not.

One other detail in the original poster's description doesn't match: the two above both have 16 MB of L3 cache, but the original post said 12 MB.

The previous 2018 15-inch MacBook Pro (sold new until May 2019) had a custom option for a 2.9 GHz 8-core Core i9 (8950HK) and 12 MB of L3 cache. That one doesn't do vPro or VMCS shadowing either.

Of the three possible Core i9 processors, only the 2.3 GHz one in the 2019 15-inch and 16-inch MacBook Pro can do nested virtualisation with Apple's hypervisor in VMware Fusion.

(The Xeons in the 2019 Mac Pro start at 8-core with 24.5 MB of L3 cache and go up from there. All of them support vPro and VMCS shadowing.)

Re: MacOS 10.11 VM won't recognize keyboard

dempson — Mon, 05 Jun 2023 11:34:40 GMT

There is a USB compatibility issue with some older macOS versions when run as a guest in recent versions of VMware Fusion. I encountered this with my OS X 10.10 Yosemite VM and I've heard of others running into the same issue with OS X 10.11 El Capitan.

The solution: switch the VM to USB 2.0 instead of USB 3.0.

In a somewhat older version of VMware Fusion I have handy, the steps to do this are:

Shut down the VM.
Open the settings for the VM.
Click on the USB & Bluetooth category.
Near the bottom, click on the triangle next to "Advanced USB options" to reveal those.
Change the USB Compatibility pop-up from "USB 3.0" to "USB 2.0".
Close settings and start up the VM again.

Re: Fusio Error code VMDB -14 Pipe connection has been broken

dempson — Wed, 05 Apr 2023 23:49:58 GMT

@Technogeezer wrote:
The 2025-2027 time frame for dropping Intel support for macOS might be in the ballpark. By 2026 all Intel Macs but the Mac Pro will be classified as Vintage hardware. Apple doesn’t seem to want to support a new OS version on Vintage hardware.

Apart from the 2019 Mac Pro, there were several Intel models discontinued during 2021, all of which would be vintage by late 2026. A few will go vintage in 2027 or 2028:

iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, 2020): discontinued March 2022, vintage about March 2027.
Mac mini (2018): discontinued January 2023, vintage about January 2028.
Mac Pro (2019): probably discontinued in the next month or two, vintage about mid 2028.

That Mac mini needs to be supported at least by macOS 14 and macOS 15; if it was dropped by macOS 16 (late 2025) then it would be a few months short for security updates. If this model was the only consideration, Apple could extend macOS 15 security updates a few months longer than usual.

Would that suffice for the 2019 Mac Pro? It would need about nine extra months of security updates, which feels more like it should get one more macOS version. Other models might come along for the ride, depending on driver support and CPU/GPU requirements.

[Edited then back again to correct off-by-one miscalculation.]

Re: Fusio Error code VMDB -14 Pipe connection has been broken

dempson — Tue, 04 Apr 2023 03:18:21 GMT

I agree that in theory macOS 14 could drop support for all Intel Macs, but based on recent and past patterns I think that is way too soon.

Looking at the measure of "time after a model was discontinued that it is supported by the latest macOS" (public releases only, not counting betas):

1. During the PowerPC to Intel transition, the minimum for mainstream models was three years for the Late 2005 PowerMac G5, discontinued August 2006 and unable to run Snow Leopard in August 2009. The 2005 Xserve G5 was worse but was rare enough not to matter.

2. From macOS 10.12 Sierra to macOS 12 Monterey the minimum was at least five years with one exception: the Mid 2012 13-inch MacBook Pro got four years, but it was sold for longer than most models.

3. macOS 13 Ventura's minimum was slightly less than three years for one model (Late 2013 Mac Pro), just over three years for another (2017 MacBook Air), the rest were at least four years.

If we assume Apple's minimum for Macs is about three years after the model was discontinued (dipping slightly under three years for long lived models) then the Late 2019 Mac Pro should get at least three more versions (macOS 14, 15 and 16) but there is the question of which other Intel Macs come along for the ride. I'll refrain from going into a lot of detail, but for macOS 14 and a three year minimum, this includes some 2017 models (low end iMac, iMac Pro).

If macOS 14 dropped all Intel Macs then its minimum for this measure would be less than six months. We have seen that in other Apple product lines (e.g. iPod Touch) but never for Macs since the introduction of Mac OS X.

Why three years? It happens to match AppleCare coverage for Macs, and adding two years of security updates we get five years, which matches the minimum hardware servicing period from when a model was discontinued.

Rosetta 2 is a harder question: assuming no licensing constraints, it is probably a year-by-year decision when to drop it based on the installed base of "important enough" Intel applications still being used on Apple Silicon Macs. It should be there at least up to the last macOS version which supports Intel Macs. After that come the extra incentives of reducing the OS footprint and Apple's development and testing burden by being able to eliminate all the Intel code in the OS if Rosetta 2 is removed.

Waiting for WWDC to get a clearer picture.

Re: Fusio Error code VMDB -14 Pipe connection has been broken

dempson — Mon, 03 Apr 2023 00:07:47 GMT

@Technogeezer wrote:
Your log shows you're running Ventura on a MacBook Pro Early 2013. That Mac is not supported by Apple to run Ventura , so you're probably using OCLP to get it to run. Sorry, but neither Apple nor VMware will support you running on that combination of hardware and macOS.
[...]
Or run a supported macOS version on that hardware (Big Sur), and a Fusion version that is supported on it (12.1.2).

Minor correction: the Early 2013 MacBook Pro is officially supported up to macOS Catalina, so it already past the point of getting security updates without using OCLP to run a later macOS.

If @jegodnit needs to run VMware Fusion on a Mac, and need Intel-based guest operating systems, I'd recommend replacing that Early 2013 MacBook Pro with a later Intel model which is still supported.

Late 2013 and Early 2014 MacBook Pros were officially supported up to Big Sur; Early/Mid 2015 and 2016 MacBook Pros were officially supported up to Monterey, a 2017 MacBook Pro is the oldest officially supported by Ventura.

Apple will be announcing macOS 14 and its list of supported models at WWDC on the morning of Monday 5 June (US time). It is likely that it will drop support for 2017 models, possibly also some 2018 models. If you can't wait until the announcement, getting a 2019 or 2020 model would be a safer bet for an extra year or two of official support.

Keep in mind that the end of all macOS support for Intel Macs is approaching - I'm estimating three more macOS versions plus two years of security updates for the final Intel Mac models. We may have a clearer picture after the WWDC keynote.

Re: Broken Pipe Error 14

dempson — Fri, 24 Feb 2023 02:30:05 GMT

Given the reappearance of the permission error on /private/tmp after a restart, I'd have a close look at everything third-party which runs at startup, e.g. in the various Library/LaunchAgents and Library/LaunchDaemons folders.

For reference: I have had TeamViewer (or variants such as TeamViewer Host) installed and running most of the time for many years on several computers, and I have never seen this broken pipe error in VMware Fusion, nor incorrect permissions on /private/tmp. Norton has never been near any of my Macs running VMware Fusion, so that seems a more likely suspect.

Re: Drag & Drop / Copy & Paste

dempson — Fri, 23 Dec 2022 02:12:57 GMT

@ColoradoMarmot wrote:

once apple stops providing os updates for it (best guess is ~5 years), if you need to do Intel based support, buying a windows machine and running workstation will be your only option. They’ve now confirmed that they only provide security updates for the current and immediately previous versions, so you’ll have about a years notice when Intel is end of life.

Unless something has changed since earlier this month, Apple provides security updates for the current major macOS version and the two preceding major versions, as has been the pattern since they settled into a roughly annual release cycle. Most recently, on 2022-12-13 they released a feature and security update for macOS Ventura (13.1), plus security updates for macOS Monterey (12.6.2) and macOS Big Sur (11.7.2).

There is the issue that they only provide full security updates for the current version - older versions get a subset of security updates which are able to be ported back without major work.

as for the copy paste, one option (highly recommended) is to get on a supported version of fusion. You can buy a 13 license and support can downgrade the key for fusion 10.

That wasn't an option I knew about - the licence manager only offers downgrading by one version for new licences, so I assumed it wasn't possible to get a new licence for anything older than version 12 now that version 13 has been released. (I haven't experimented with downgrading my in-use licence keys as I don't want to risk breaking them, and VMware documentation I've found doesn't clearly explain what happens after you downgrade.)

Re: VM Ware Fusion Pro Professional Version 13.0.0 (20802013) vs, Windows NT 4 SP6

dempson — Tue, 20 Dec 2022 05:26:41 GMT

I'm covering my bases for the Apple Silicon transition by keeping at least two working late model Intel Macs (2019 16-inch MacBook Pro and 2018 Mac Mini). My primary computer is now an Apple Silicon MacBook Pro. I haven't needed ARM VMs yet but chose a configuration which will handle it easily.

At present my Intel VMs are still mostly running on an even older MacBook Pro, with some on the 2019 MacBook Pro under a secondary Catalina startup volume (so I can keep using VMware's hypervisor). At some point I'll move VMware to the current macOS version I normally boot on that computer, which will be more convenient and secure but I'll then have to suffer some limitations of Apple's hypervisor (networking is my main concern).

If I need a desktop Apple Silicon Mac for ARM VMs I'd prefer to wait and see the rumoured Mac Mini with M2 Pro, as that may fit my needs better than than a Mac Studio. Limitations of ARM Windows 11 support is enough of a reason to keep waiting at present.

Longer term, once Apple drops support for late model Intel Macs, I'll move some of my Intel VMs to a desktop Windows PC running VMware Workstation and rely on remote access in some form. I'll have to leave my collection of older macOS VMs behind on an unsupported Mac.

Re: Moving from Personal use Player 12 to Player 13 on a MAC

dempson — Thu, 15 Dec 2022 23:38:03 GMT

If you only need to run one application and no Mac equivalent is available when you move to Apple Silicon, you should look at Crossover as a possible solution - it lets you run Windows applications directly on macOS, and works by emulating the Windows API (instead of running a copy of Windows in a virtual machine). You would need to use the free trial to see how well your particular application works, or at least check if they have mentioned the application you use in their compatibility list.

I used Crossover briefly a few years ago but my needs for actual Windows were complex and varied enough that I found it easier to stick with the VM solution (or a real PC). Your Windows usage pattern sounds much simpler.

Re: VM Ware Fusion Pro Professional Version 13.0.0 (20802013) vs, Windows NT 4 SP6

dempson — Thu, 15 Dec 2022 20:27:27 GMT

@ColoradoMarmot wrote:
Wow Warp brings back memories...that's circa 1993!
If you downgrade the mini to an OS that can run Fusion 11, you might have some luck moving it over - that's the last one that used the VMWare hypervisor.

Also worth noting that Fusion 12.1.2 running on macOS Catalina is using VMware's hypervisor, so NT might work there. Catalina certainly runs on what sounds like a 2018 Mac Mini.

If you have Fusion 12, you can download older minor versions from the customer connect portal (12.2 and later required Big Sur, 12.1.2 was the last version which ran on Catalina).

Re: Moving from Personal use Player 12 to Player 13 on a MAC

dempson — Thu, 15 Dec 2022 05:24:29 GMT

What operating system(s) are you running in VMs on your current MacBook Pro?

As I implied in the list at my end of the previous post, if you are planning to move to an M2 MacBook Pro next year, it will not be possible to use any of your existing virtual machines on the new Mac, because the virtual machine must use the same core architecture as the processor of the host computer.

Your existing 2014 MacBook Pro has an Intel (x86) processor and VMware Fusion on that Mac can run virtual machines with x86-based operating systems (such as Windows 10 or earlier, older macOS versions, and x86 variants of Linux).

Your future M2 MacBook Pro has an Apple Silicon (ARM) processor and VMware Fusion 13 on that Mac would be able to run virtual machines with ARM-based operating systems, but not x86-based operating systems.

The initial release of VMware Fusion 13 running on an M1/M2 is mainly for running ARM variants of Linux, plus it has limited support for the ARM variant of Windows 11 (with some fiddling required and some missing features). macOS guests are not yet supported.

By the time you get your M2 MBP, a later update of VMware Fusion 13 may be available with better ARM Windows 11 and ARM Linux support, but we don't know whether macOS guest support will be coming any time soon (if it was, it would be limited to running macOS Monterey or later as a guest). Older macOS and Windows versions are out of the question, as are any other x86 operating systems (such as x86 Windows 11 or Linux variants).

Re: Moving from Personal use Player 12 to Player 13 on a MAC

dempson — Thu, 15 Dec 2022 03:40:34 GMT

In your case (older MBP with an Intel processor running macOS Big Sur), you cannot upgrade to Fusion 13 at present, because Fusion 13 won't run on macOS Big Sur.

Assuming your Mac isn't too old, then at some point you may want to upgrade it to a newer macOS version, e.g. because macOS Big Sur will stop getting security updates in late 2023.

If you upgraded to macOS Monterey you could run Fusion 12 or 13: in that case the main reason to get 13 would be if you needed to run a newer guest operating system which wasn't supported by Fusion 12, or you wanted new features of Fusion 13.

If you upgraded to macOS Ventura you would have to upgrade to Fusion 13, because Fusion 12 doesn't support Ventura.

See the release notes for Fusion 13 to get an idea about new features:

https://docs.vmware.com/en/VMware-Fusion/13.0/rn/vmware-fusion-130-release-notes/index.html

MBP models and supported macOS versions (only considering Intel models able to run Big Sur):

Late 2013 and Mid 2014: Big Sur is the last supported macOS version. You would need to replace the Mac with a newer model to run macOS Monterey or later and keep using Fusion. (Note that if you need to run x86-based operating systems in virtual machines, your new Mac must also have an Intel processor, which limits to you considering 2015 through 2020 models, not Apple Silicon models with M1 or later.)
Early 2015 and 2016: Monterey is the last supported macOS version.
2017 through 2020: can run Monterey or Ventura, future macOS support not yet known.

Re: Frequent VERY slow boot-up times for VM (macOS host, Windows 11 guest)

dempson — Mon, 12 Dec 2022 05:34:08 GMT

[Edited some details to correct processor speed and list another possibility.]

Assuming my sources have the details right, the 2020 27-inch iMac with a 3.6 GHz 10-core i9 has a Core i9-10910.

The iMac with a 3.8 GHz 8-core i7 has a Core i7-10700K.

There is no 3.8 GHz Core i9 so I'm not sure which detail you have wrong.

VMCS shadowing is part of the vPro feature set. According to https://ark.intel.com, the Core i9-10910 is the only processor option for the 2020 27-inch iMac which does NOT have vPro, therefore cannot do VMCS Shadowing, so cannot do efficient nested virtualisation in VMware Fusion on macOS Big Sur or later. The Core i7-10700K does have vPro.

There was a similar situation with the 2019 15-inch and 16-inch MacBook Pro, where of the three available processor options, only the middle one had vPro (and VMCS shadowing). Those who bought the most expensive CPU missed out.

To confirm which processor is in your iMac, use the following command in Terminal:

sysctl -a|grep brand

The output should resemble this (from my 16-inch MacBook Pro):

machdep.cpu.brand_string: Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-9880H CPU @ 2.30GHz
machdep.cpu.brand: 0

In your case I'd expect to see an "Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-10910 CPU @ 3.60 GHz" or "Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-10700K CPU @3.80 GHz".

You can then use https://ark.intel.com to find the specifications for your processor and see whether the page mentions "vPro". If that text appears it should be a line in the table which says "Intel vPro® Eligibility" with a value of "Intel vPro® Platform". If you see that text, then your processor supports vPro and by extension VMCS shadowing.

If you cannot find a line mentioning vPro then your processor does NOT support vPro or VMCS shadowing.

Re: How to get Fusion 11.5?

dempson — Thu, 08 Dec 2022 05:17:28 GMT

The general pattern has been that Fusion licences include downgrade rights for one preceding major version, e.g. if you buy a version 13 licence you could downgrade it to a version 12 licence.

[edited the following to correct initial misinformation]

Per the note earlier in this thread from @Mikero and other threads here, late updates of Fusion 11 (probably 11.5.7) will accept a Fusion 12 licence key, and that version will run on macOS Mojave 10.14 so you should be OK.

Also worth noting that a free personal use licence won't work because that option didn't exist for Fusion 11. You need a paid licence for Fusion 13, downgraded to Fusion 12.

Also worth noting that Fusion 11.5.3 or earlier doesn't support Fusion 12 licence keys, so if you need to run Fusion on macOS High Sierra or earlier it is already too late to buy a new licence. (Fusion 11.5.5 through 11.5.7 require Mojave or Catalina.) When Fusion 14 is released at some point in the future, that will remove the Fusion 12 downgrade option, which will prevent getting a new licence which can run on Mojave (11.5.7), Catalina (11.5.7 thru 12.1.2) or Big Sur (12.x).