article Running Fusion on an Intel Mac and upgrading to an M1/M2 Mac? Read this first. in VMware Fusion Documents

Running Fusion on an Intel Mac and upgrading to an M1/M2 Mac? Read this first.

Technogeezer — Tue, 20 Jun 2023 18:05:16 GMT

Helpful information about what's possible and what isn't if you're making the jump to the an M1 Macs.

Re: Running Fusion and upgrading from an Intel Mac to an M1 Mac? Read this first.

mthoftne — Tue, 18 Jan 2022 07:19:55 GMT

I would imagine the majority use case for Fusion was to run Windows VMs on Mac.

Since that is no longer possible on ARM based Macs, and Apple will soon only offer ARM based Macs...

I wonder about the future viability of Fusion.

Will it make business sense to keep the product alive if it can only run ARM based Linux VMs?

Or will VMware deprecate Fusion entirely?

Re: Running Fusion and upgrading from an Intel Mac to an M1 Mac? Read this first.

Technogeezer — Tue, 18 Jan 2022 14:24:42 GMT

I do not work for VMware, but here is my opinion.

It doesn’t appear to me that Fusion is going to be deprecated. It does look like they are looking at ways to make it more valuable in todays development environment. Those environments and paradigms tend to be more Linux focused.
It also appears that VMware is keeping an eye on what Microsoft is doing, so Windows on Mac is not entirely off the table.
You might want to take a look at a recent VMware Community Podcast https://youtu.be/FiPanHfpY6g . Michael Roy @Mikero (Fusion/Workstation project manager) has very nice things to say about the M1 Macs as well as giving insights on where he thinks Fusion is going. There are also some nice nuggets of information there about Windows.

Re: Running Fusion and upgrading from an Intel Mac to an M1 Mac? Read this first.

dminter — Mon, 24 Jan 2022 20:41:47 GMT

Here is the short solution for those looking to run Windows 11 on an M1 Apple machine. Parallels.com. It works, is easy, and has been reliable. I do run Windows 11 on my Intel iMac using VMware's trial/test "product". If I had to guess which will break first - it would be the VM Fusion. Parallels is in the business to stay, and with the knowledge and OK from Microsoft - just my opinion.

Re: Running Fusion and upgrading from an Intel Mac to an M1 Mac? Read this first.

Technogeezer — Mon, 24 Jan 2022 22:07:51 GMT

I will agree that the advantages the competition has over VMware are that

they've officially released a product for M1 Macs and
they've created virtual machine tools that make the Windows for ARM experience better.

What I disagree with is that the competition's product is the "solution to the problem". Their marketing veneer still ignores the two important details of Microsoft licensing and support. .

Ask yourself this: Why doesn't the competition tell you to buy a retail Windows product license and download an ISO from Microsoft to run Windows 11 as a virtual machine on an M1 Mac using their product? Why do they continue to tell you to download a (unsupported) Windows Insider Preview HyperV disk image in order to run Windows 11 in their product?

What kind of solution is that? It's a science project.

As I say, you may be fine with accepting the risks of running a science project that's unlicensed and unsupported by its creator. Others (especially if you absolutely have to depend on Windows for your day to day work or you are running a Mac computer provided to you by your employer) may not be.

I will, however, also agree to change the article and my opinions should Microsoft change course.

Re: Running Fusion and upgrading from an Intel Mac to an M1 Mac? Read this first.

dminter — Tue, 25 Jan 2022 00:44:25 GMT

Long essays concluding that these methods are a "science project" make me smile. The reality is the entire Internet, and every application is a "science project" on the verge or not working at any given point in time. Parallels has a business - their software has worked flawlessly for a month now. It simply isn't that complicated. The entire install process was a no-brainer and easy to do. And this is from someone who actually did it. . As a side note, Windows 11 VM launches in 3.9 seconds flat using Parallels platform (using a setting to hold the VM in a state of semi-readiness). By far the fastest load time for any Windows VM I have run.

All software is a risk. My handicap of a major problems (e.g. VM stops working) is < 1% from running the advertised, paid parallels.com product. As for Fusion - I'd say 25-50% chance of them pulling the plug by deciding to get out of the Fusion business. Either set of odds are acceptable to me. Anyone reading these posts could be scared off. They shouldn't be. I've been running beta software since DOS; the Windows 11 VM's are among the least risky in decades of doing this.

Re: Running Fusion and upgrading from an Intel Mac to an M1 Mac? Read this first.

MLSCO — Tue, 25 Jan 2022 00:50:55 GMT

Would waiting this out by means of a cost-effective Windows PC to run Windows programs and a smaller MAC to do what needs to be done on a MAC be a practical solution?

Re: Running Fusion and upgrading from an Intel Mac to an M1 Mac? Read this first.

dminter — Tue, 25 Jan 2022 00:55:13 GMT

Hi MLSCO. Absolutely a great interim solution. I have resisted buying a Windows PC because I like staying in the Apple world. But I would get a low-cost Windows PC in a minute if I wanted to avoid the hassles and unknowns that currently exist in the VM world.

Re: Running Fusion and upgrading from an Intel Mac to an M1 Mac? Read this first.

gringley — Tue, 25 Jan 2022 00:59:05 GMT

If you have a "critical" Windows application running it on a Windows PC is always going to be the best option, if less than convenient. The greedy issue you are seeing play out here is that Apple's M1 has beat the supported Microsoft options into the dirt performance-wise, so it is not only the convenience of having your Mac and Windows on one platform, but all indications are that the M1 Mac will run your Windows as fast or faster than any supported Windows platform in comparable form factors. You just have the risk that at any point Microsoft or Apple could do something that Parallels cannot fix and then the fun is over.

Re: Running Fusion and upgrading from an Intel Mac to an M1 Mac? Read this first.

dminter — Tue, 25 Jan 2022 01:13:19 GMT

I wouldn't run any critical application on anything other than a native machine designed to run that particular software. In my limited experience, VM's are another layer of software that increase the potential for problems. Yet VMware has built a giant business - so there is certainly plenty of demand for running software on non-native hardware. And granted, running not-exactly-fully-approved software on VM's adds a measure of risk.

Re: Running Fusion and upgrading from an Intel Mac to an M1 Mac? Read this first.

MLSCO — Tue, 25 Jan 2022 01:13:30 GMT

Thanks to dminter and gringley for your quick, respective responses

Re: Running Fusion and upgrading from an Intel Mac to an M1 Mac? Read this first.

Technogeezer — Tue, 25 Jan 2022 01:52:44 GMT

@dminter you went in with eyes wide open. I can appreciate your decision. In fact, I can appreciate it if people decide to switch.

Perhaps I was a bit harsh on the term “science project”. Yes it works, and you’ll get no argument on that. But don’t make the situation out for what it isn’t. Not licensable. Not supported. You decide if you can live with this

But I have issues with the competition for failing to point out this situation clearly. And lost some respect for them after reading some quotes from them in a TidBITS article about the situation that made me question their respect for another vendors’ intellectual property and their customers.

Tell you what. Based on your comments and feedback I’ll tone down the sections of the article a bit My intent is not to scare but to inform.

Re: Running Fusion and upgrading from an Intel Mac to an M1 Mac? Read this first.

dminter — Tue, 25 Jan 2022 02:05:50 GMT

@Technogeezer thank you for your thoughtful feedback. I would take a bit of issue with "not supported." To my knowledge, parallels absolutely will support the product you buy from them. As for support from Microsoft - as far as we know Microsoft may already be supporting parallels (behind the scenes). What is stated in PR releases, and what is being actually done in the real world may be different. I think we probably agree that any mission-critical situation should not dabble in any of this. As a "PS," I think the whole TPM thing is a big mistake by Microsoft that will be slowly become less of an issue. Just a gut feeling and I am not an expert.

Re: Running Fusion and upgrading from an Intel Mac to an M1 Mac? Read this first.

Technogeezer — Tue, 25 Jan 2022 03:41:15 GMT

Hopefully my new revision is a bit more useful and balanced. Thanks for the feedback.

I have a strange feeling @dminter that if this exclusivity agreement does indeed exist that Qualcomm would be screaming if Microsoft allows VMware to announce "support" for Windows on M1 Macs. VMware is a much bigger and more visible target for the "hold on there - I thought we had an exclusivity agreement" complaint from Qualcomm - and it's also well known about the behavior of their lawyers..

As to "not supported", well I'm just repeating what Microsoft has said publicly. Too many times I've seen that phrase erupt into a war depending on the situation. What Microsoft does in practice is up to them, but I do have a problem with Microsoft saying "it's unsupported" when they will actually will help out.

As far as the TPM thing goes, I kind of understand why they're doing it. With all the new and creative ways that malware is attacking systems, having the ability to trust what you're booting from (Secure Boot and signed operating systems) and having a secure enclave for storing security related information (in Windows 11 case Bitlocker and Windows Hello info) go a long way to boost the security of the system. All of a sudden, security sells.

Re: Running Fusion and upgrading from an Intel Mac to an M1 Mac? Read this first.

treee — Sat, 29 Jan 2022 14:55:26 GMT

One thing to note here: since 1-1-2022 there is a new law in the EU concerning software and online services. If the product/service does not do what it says it does or when features get taken away after some time then the manufacturer can be hold liable. That in general means they'll have to refund you fully. If you state that you can run Windows as a vm which all of a sudden is no longer possible then you are going to be in for some great legal fun...

Besides that I think some people aren't aware of the fact that VMware is a huge player in the enterprise when it comes to virtualisation and some other stuff. With Fusion supporting containers and also being able to connect to ESXi instances I very much doubt that the main use case is to run a Windows client on a Mac. It wouldn't surprise me that the cloud plays a large role and that cloud is primarily being run on Linux and containers. For companies there are better options that VMware provides should you need to provide a Windows environment to your users (options that require much simpler systems management because it isn't heavily fragmented). Fusion isn't the only product that has gotten container support and is being ported to arm64.

Btw, kudos for the document, it is a good summarisation of what is currently possible (or not possible).

Re: Running Fusion and upgrading from an Intel Mac to an M1 Mac? Read this first.

Technogeezer — Sat, 29 Jan 2022 16:18:52 GMT

@treee You make a very good point about about VMware, its breadth of product offerings, and how they may view how Fusion plays into that.

I have just updated the document with a link to a recent VMWare CMTY Podcast I find interesting. Michael Roy @Mikero (product manager for VMware desktop hypervisor products). discussed not only his experiences with M1 Macs, but offered hints about where he sees Fusion fitting into a bigger picture. I think it's required viewing (as VMware doesn't give roadmap information about future product plans).

Another interesting data point is to review information about VMware's latest Tanzu Application Platform release. Combine this with what you hear in the podcast.

Re: Running Fusion and upgrading from an Intel Mac to an M1 Mac? Read this first.

dminter — Tue, 24 May 2022 18:55:41 GMT

Update: running Windows 11 on Apple Intel machine since Win 11 was announced. Zero issues but a bit of a tech chore to set it up as it is "not supported" whatever that really means. . Also on a different Apple M1 processor machine, running Windows 11, using Parallels, since the day Win 11 was released - flawless (but costs $). All the supported and non-supported positioning by the various players is a bit laughable IMHO. It all works, and works flawlessly for me anyway. The longer these "non-supported" options are supported by VmWare and Parallels - the less likely they are to actually stop support. Too many people in the pool. @Technogeezer will probably disagree, but I am reporting on what is actually happening thus far - not what might happen in the future.

Re: Running Fusion and upgrading from an Intel Mac to an M1 Mac? Read this first.

ColoradoMarmot — Tue, 24 May 2022 19:01:21 GMT

VMWare does not support Windows 11 on ARM - there's no tools, and significant limitations. Parallels has issues and limitations, but does provide tools.

Neither one right now can do so legally because there is simply no pay to obtain a legal license to run Windows 11 ARM in production on a Mac. Hopefully that'll change, but until it does, YMMV.

Re: Running Fusion and upgrading from an Intel Mac to an M1 Mac? Read this first.

Quickdraw — Tue, 24 May 2022 19:23:42 GMT

Thanks for this great information. As we're looking to do some client upgrades soon, this will answer some questions we have.

Re: Running Fusion and upgrading from an Intel Mac to an M1 Mac? Read this first.

Technogeezer — Tue, 24 May 2022 21:32:56 GMT

@dminter I don't necessarily disagree with you about what's actually going on. Yes it works. And it works today.

For non-corporate users, you may not care if Microsoft doesn't support the platform and it works for you.

For use in a commercial environment, supportability and licensing absolutely matters. Tell your bosses that Microsoft won't do anything when there's a problem with Windows 11 on the M1 Mac that you're using - that's an IT résumé generating event..

And if there is indeed an exclusivity agreement between Microsoft and Qualcomm, Microsoft would be at the mercy of Qualcomm's lawyers if they announced support for a product that Qualcomm is supposed to have an exclusive agreement for.

IMO, the length of time that the non-supported use of a product is ignored means nothing. Microsoft isn't getting paid for Windows 11 on the M1 Mac, so do you really think they care if a small minority of users squawk if Microsoft enforces not running on unsupported configurations?