12 Replies Latest reply on Sep 13, 2019 2:20 PM by Mikero

    VMware Fusion 12

    ConnectixVPC4Mac6xPBG412 Novice

      It is the time of year when VMware and Parallels release their next versions. Therefore with the release of Parallels 15 I am wondering when Fusion 12 will be released. Of particular interest is that Parallels 15 has DirectX 11 support which VMware Fusion users have been asking for. Here is the Parallels 15 DirectX info blurb..

       

       

      "Version 15 supports DirectX 9, DirectX 10 and DirectX 11—all via Apple Metal®.* With the addition of DirectX 11, you can now run graphic-intensive applications and games, such as Autodesk 3ds Max 2020, Lumion, ArcGIS Pro, Master Series, FIFA 19, Age of Empires, Fallout 4 and more."

       

      Since I am a Fusion user I would not like to have to move to Parallels to get comparable DirectX capability. I am thinking it is time for VMware to show up with respect to Parallels 15.

       

      I know the "we don't share" routine, but a lot of VMware Fusion users expected VMware to get to DirectX 11 before Parallels and so I, as one of them, am a little disappointed. I am hoping Fusion 12 will be worth the additional wait. Perhaps VMware mgmt could throw us a bone or two?

        • 1. Re: VMware Fusion 12
          continuum Guru
          User ModeratorsCommunity WarriorsvExpert

          Next version will be Fusion 11.5
          And here is the bone you asked for :
          VMworld 2019: Fusion and Workstation Announcements - VMware Fusion Blog - VMware Blogs

          • 2. Re: VMware Fusion 12
            ConnectixVPC4Mac6xPBG412 Novice

            Thank you for the bone... I am afraid VMware Fusion has been bested in a significant way but not supporting DirectX 11 before Parallels. This cannot be spun to be a good thing. Many users have been wanting this for a long time. I appreciate the 1.5 and no charge, but I would have been glad to have paid for DirectX 11... I hope you will do a comparison of 11.5 to Parallels 15 so that we do not have to rely on Parallels to do this.

            • 3. Re: VMware Fusion 12
              continuum Guru
              vExpertUser ModeratorsCommunity Warriors

              Just for the record: I do not work for VMware.

              I would suggest that you leave a comment on the referenced blog-post

              • 5. Re: VMware Fusion 12
                SvenGus Expert

                Finally, also with Dark Mode...!

                • 6. Re: VMware Fusion 12
                  Mikero Master
                  VMware Employees

                  We have an equally biased comparison chart

                  It's just marketing collateral, but we market to slightly different audiences.

                   

                  As for DX11, we've been working on it for some time, but remember that we have to build for 4 products, not just 1.

                  So, our Guest DX implementation has to work across Fusion, Workstation for Windows (incl. Player), Workstation for Linux (incl. Player), and ESXi.

                  So we have to render:

                  - DX11 in Apple Metal

                  - DX11 in  OpenGL on Linux

                  - DX11 in DX12+ on Windows

                   

                  Part of the issue as well is that Apple's Metal has to support all the things that DX11 supports, and I'm not 100% sure it does that yet.

                  It certainly hasn't previously, otherwise we would have skipped DX10.1 and moved right to 11.

                  • 7. Re: VMware Fusion 12
                    dlhotka Virtuoso

                    Beat me to it, and there's one line missing - Fusion 11.5 is a free upgrade (thank you!).

                     

                    To the OP, this, like most duopolies in tech, is a back and forth arms race.  One is better for a short time, the other catches up and passes, and the cycle repeats.  The best option is to pick one horse and ride it.  Most folks don't switch back and forth between iOS and android because one phone has a better camera, for example.

                    • 8. Re: VMware Fusion 12
                      rlregehr Lurker

                      While I prefer Fusion due to it's licensing over Parallels I have to say Fusion is dog slow compared to Parallels 15. 

                       

                      I hope this is addressed in Fusion 11.5.  The Parallels user experience is orders of magnitude better. It literally boots windows 10 in under ten seconds.  Fusion 11 is double that and applications are SLOW and lethargic compared to Parallels.

                       

                      VMware is a billion dollar company compared to tiny Parallels and they are completely cleaning your clock!

                       

                      Try it out and see for yourself how much Fusion is lacking.

                       

                      Please fix your product!

                      • 9. Re: VMware Fusion 12
                        dlhotka Virtuoso

                        Well, we didn't get a catalina drop today, so I'm guessing we'll have a mac event in early October and a release later in October.  More time to bake 11.5 :-)

                        • 10. Re: VMware Fusion 12
                          VirtualMac2009 Enthusiast

                          The problem with Parallel Desktop is that it does not work to control machines via USB on Windows on Mac. It crashes while collecting data. Yet, VMware Fusion works great in such scenario.

                          • 11. Re: VMware Fusion 12
                            Gemvox Lurker

                            Part of the issue as well is that Apple's Metal has to support all the things that DX11 supports, and I'm not 100% sure it does that yet.

                            That seems like an odd thing to say when Parallels just released DX11 on Metal

                            • 12. Re: VMware Fusion 12
                              Mikero Master
                              VMware Employees

                              They can claim it, but that doesn't mean they're saying it's build in full compliance to the D3D v11 spec.

                              "DX11 support" and a "fully compliant DX11 virtual graphics stack" are two different things.

                               

                              DX11 things obviously work (and do work on Fusion as well, as long as they have DX10.1 fallback), but they have a list of apps they know work and ones they know don't.

                              If it's a compliant implementation of the d3d apis, everything should 'just work', even if it's just slower.

                              I would expect that apps which they didn't explicitly claim support for would have black objects or other weird rendering issues (or crashes) if the app is trying to use a shader or function that isn't there.

                               

                              We definitely know that the current shipping Metal (v2) and DX11 are not at feature parity, so there has to be corners cut somewhere.

                              Metal 3, coming in Catalina, is closer, but I think there's still a delta.

                               

                              We've been at it for years, it's a non-trivial thing to say the least.

                               

                              A look through parallels forums shows a lot of folks having issues getting games and other apps to run.

                              Parallels even notes that the 'optimal' experience will be with Metal 3 on 10.15 because it has more GPU functions and is closer to parity with DX11.

                               

                              One of their engineers noted in their forums: "Some applications will work only on macOS Catalina where Apple implemented more functionality in Apple Metal." but they didn't list what apps those are.

                               

                              So yah, I don't think it's a fully compliant DX11 implementation.

                               

                              For us, the bar for claiming 'DX11 support' is much higher, there will be no corners cut, and it will be supported on Fusion as well as Workstation for Windows and Linux.

                               

                               

                              https://forum.parallels.com/threads/directx-11-compatibility.346978/