6 Replies Latest reply on Jul 19, 2019 10:43 AM by Lapra

    Packaging newer apps for older OS {win xp}

    Lapra Lurker

      Hello,

       

      I would like to make some new programs to work on windows xp 64/32

       

      Example: firefox, chrome, skype

       

      So my question is... Can i make a program that requires windows 7 or higher run on windows xp? By packaging all needed dlls from my windows 7 with the virtualized app in correct folders (ie: system32, syswow64, winsxs)

       

      Can application virtualization technology & thinapp achieve that?

       

      I've tried but it doesn't seem to work once i package any dlls (like ntdll, kernel32, shell32) with the app, after building it wont run! Not even in windows7!

       

       

      Many organizations still & will keep relying on xp

      Governments, health care, even large portion of us military still uses xp

      & why? For it's rigourously tested stability, effeciency & minimal footprint

       

      & these organizations can't afford redeploying their infrastructure to another os...

      It is not just a financial problem but there are irreplaceable hardware/software drivers... Gpu intensive, that you can't install/use in virtual machines

       

      So while on these systems we would like to have access to simple things, like researching online... & with many websites using TLS 1.3 & other things, latest xp compatible browsers (firefox 52, chrome 48) don't support

      You can't access these websites. Having chat with a colleague on something like skype... Etc

       

      This is just an example but 90% of usage will be offline, we would like to use some tools that unfortunately not supported on xp...

       

      I know a lot of people & i have many friends with the same interests...

       

      If Thinapp can do that, then not only me & my friends, but millions & millions of people will be relying on it!

        • 1. Re: Packaging newer apps for older OS {win xp}
          VirtAppLife Enthusiast
          vExpert

          Hi, Lapra,

           

          This is just my personal opinion, VMware ThinApp is a product that virtualizes user mode applications and components.

          Therefore, ThinApp cannot virtualize OS layer components, such as ntdll.dll, kernel32.dll and shell32.dll.

           

          I think that you should remove these dlls from ThinApp project folder, and re-build it.

           

          Regards,

          Kzmaybe

          • 2. Re: Packaging newer apps for older OS {win xp}
            Lapra Lurker

            Hello VirtAppLife,

             

            Thank you for your reply

             

            Well, before knowing that, the reason i included those dlls...

             

             

            On win7 i run waterfox 56.2.10 (a firefox based browser) & check it's dll dependencies & the functions it uses... & which dlls contain those functions...

             

            For this task i use "dependencies" which is a rewrite of Dependency Walker

            https://github.com/lucasg/Dependencies

            &

            Dll Export Viewer

            DLL Export Viewer - view exported functions list in Windows DLL

             

            Both of them list waterfox/firefox using dlls/functions in Ntdll, kernel32, user32, shell32, ole32... & many others...

             

            I included all the needed dlls to the correct folders & the result is as i mentioned

             

            If i package waterfox/firefox without any dlls it runs just fine on win7,

            It runs even without packaging...

            but it won't run on XP64 bcoz it's incompatible

             

            Try running firefox 68 in xp64 virtual machine & see what happens...

             

            You get error "could not find xxxx function in xxxx.dll"

             

            However... Someone told me that running those apps doesn't require kernel components!

             

            How??? Can i package an application that's incompatible with windows xp 64bit to run on windows xp64

            Using windows7 64bit? (the app runs fine on win7 64bit)

             

            Is that possible??? & how can we do it?

             

            firefox 68 as a sample...

            • 3. Re: Packaging newer apps for older OS {win xp}
              VirtAppLife Enthusiast
              vExpert

              Hi, Lapra,

               

              Thank you for your reply.

              As you say, and as Sysinternals Tools tell us, all Win32 apps rely on Kernel32.dll and ntdll.

              However, there are almost no problems with using OS native DLLs. So I do not include these DLLs in the package.

               

              I also use ThinApp to migrate older apps to newer operating systems, but I do not use ThinApp in scenarios to migrate newer apps to older operating systems.


              Regards,
              Kzmaybe

              • 4. Re: Packaging newer apps for older OS {win xp}
                Lapra Lurker

                Hello kzmaybe,

                 

                I really wish someone with deep technical knowledge from vmware tell us if thats possible

                 

                There is a similar scenario...

                 

                What would you do if you want to package a program from win98/95 that is incompatible with win7/win10? How would you package that? 16bit programs?

                 

                @VirtAppLife have you encountered an older app that requires system dlls not available in newer OS, & how did you package it?

                 

                Is there anything that can virtualize kernel components?

                 

                "there are almost no problems with using OS native DLLs" yes but older operating system dlls don't support newer functions that was introduced in newer os (example: getknownfolderpath) so newer programs that employ those newer functions wouldn't run on older os...

                 

                I really am surprised that application virtualization is that limited!

                Why don't they use the same technology in vmware workstation to run/use only those components needed in a full container with the application?

                 

                VMWare Workstation Lite or VMWare ThinApp Pro

                Run any app on any OS! It would be revolutionary!!!

                • 5. Re: Packaging newer apps for older OS {win xp}
                  VirtAppLife Enthusiast
                  vExpert

                  Hi Lapra,

                   

                  If i have an important app on win98, with little wish, I try to package on Windows NT 4.0 x86 to migrate to Win7/10 x86.

                  Because, ThinApp is 32bit App. as you know, 32bit app cannot run on 16bit operatiing system.

                   

                  I'm sorry I don't know what you want...

                   

                  ThinApp is cool product, but not magic tool. I think main features of ThinApp are emulate to read/write filesystem and registry.

                  by using ThinApp, I have not needed to concern about path of any windows OS.

                   

                  Best Regards,

                  Kzmaybe

                  • 6. Re: Packaging newer apps for older OS {win xp}
                    Lapra Lurker

                    "I'm sorry I don't know what you want..."

                     

                    I want to run programs that require windows7 or higher on windows XP

                     

                    Example (firefox 68, chrome 75, discord, skype)