12 Replies Latest reply on Sep 29, 2017 9:25 PM by YuriP

    Metal Renderer not working on 10.13 HOS with Windows 10 guest

    schuhmab Novice

      Hi,

       

      Tech Preview readme mentions under Known Issues that new Metal renderer "doesn't work well" on hosts with Skylake CPUs. I've tested on an i7-3615QM and i7-6820HQ and wasn't able to install VMware tools video driver on neither of the two systems. It seems the new Metal renderer doesn't work at all on 10.13 HOS with Windows 10 guests?

       

      Regards

       

      Bernhard

        • 1. Re: Metal Renderer not working on 10.13 HOS with Windows 10 guest
          RickShu Expert
          VMware Employees

          Hi schuhmab,

           

          Would you please describe what happened when you install VMware Tools especially video driver on your Windows 10 guest? Have you tried to remove the Tools completely from guest and re-install it?

           

          Regards,

          -Rick

          • 2. Re: Metal Renderer not working on 10.13 HOS with Windows 10 guest
            schuhmab Novice

            Hello Rick,

             

            started VMware tools installation manually, and when installer reported video driver gets installed the VM crashed. That's the behaviour when trying  to install VMware tools on a fresh Windows 10 insider preview (16232) or release (1703) install. Tried both automated and manual installation of the release version, always crashed with Metal renderer switched on.

             

            I've also tried to run existing VMs with Tech Preview version and Metal renderer switched on (default) - with no luck. Always had to switch off Metal renderer before any Windows 10 version (insider preview and release) worked (didn't crash at some point during boot).

             

            Not sure if I'm doing something wrong, but since I've tried several combinations and none worked, I wanted to report my problem. Let me know if a) it should work with Windows 10 on my CPUs and b) if there is a suggested procedure I could try to get it working. Happy to try it out!

             

            Thanks

             

            Bernhard

            • 3. Re: Metal Renderer not working on 10.13 HOS with Windows 10 guest
              joserfonseca Lurker
              VMware Employees

              The symptoms using Metal with Skylake/Kabylake integrated graphics on 10.13 HOS vary with GOS, guest 3D applications, and the exact macOS build.

               

              They should go away in the near future, but for now, on the affected systems it's safest to use the mks.enableMTLRenderer=0 workaround documented in the release notes .

               

              Another alternative for dual GPU Macs is to disable Automatic graphics switching in the System preferences, to force the use of the discrete GPU.  But that would of course affect battery life.  And it's not an option for Macs that only have integrated graphics.

              • 4. Re: Metal Renderer not working on 10.13 HOS with Windows 10 guest
                schuhmab Novice

                Another alternative for dual GPU Macs is to disable Automatic graphics switching in the System preferences, to force the use of the discrete GPU.

                Tried this, but my problems still persist. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but tried to switch off Automatic graphics switching, set mks.enableMTLRenderer=1 and started the VM again. The VM crashes regardless wether Automatic graphics switching is switched on or off. I'm wondering if my problem is unrelated to the Skylake/Kabylake problem? Also note that the behaviour is the same on both the Skylake and Ivy Bridge system.

                • 5. Re: Metal Renderer not working on 10.13 HOS with Windows 10 guest
                  joserfonseca Lurker
                  VMware Employees

                  Regarding Skylake/Kabylake specific issues, upgrading to macOS 10.13 beta 6 build 17A344b should resolve them.

                   

                  Note the workaround is addind mks.enableMTLRenderer=0  (not mks.enableMTLRenderer=1), to the .vmx while the VM is powered off.  If the issue you see persists spite that then it means that issue is without doubt unrelated to Metal vs OpenGL at all.  It could even be a 3rd party app on the system taking down the GPU.

                   

                  We're not aware of issues with Windows 10 on Ivy Bridge.  Is there anything special (e.g. additional Windows store apps installed) you're using?  Also please confirm the exact GPU used, by searching for `Metal Device name:` line in the vmware.log inside the VM directory.

                  • 6. Re: Metal Renderer not working on 10.13 HOS with Windows 10 guest
                    Thicot Novice

                    I confirm that Metal Renderer does not work at all with Windows guests and not only Windows 10 and this, regardless of the CPU. The only workaround to be able to start my existing VMs was to add the mks.enableMTLRenderer = "0" to my .vmx files. This is the first time ever I cannot start my VMS after an update/upgrade of Fusion. This is reproducible on my iMac 5k, Late 2014 with Sierra and on my MacBook Pro Retina 13", Early 2015 with High Sierra.

                    • 7. Re: Metal Renderer not working on 10.13 HOS with Windows 10 guest
                      YuriP Lurker

                      Same to me.

                       

                      Without disable the mks.enableMTLRenderer any Windows VM I have tried don't even starts.

                       

                      With the mks.enableMTLRenderer disabled all Windows VM starts, but the 3D performance is horrible.

                       

                      The main difference to me against other reports is that I'm using a macOS Sierra 10.12.6

                       

                      My computer is a MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2016, Four Thunderbolt 3 Ports).

                      • 8. Re: Metal Renderer not working on 10.13 HOS with Windows 10 guest
                        RickShu Expert
                        VMware Employees

                        Hi YuriP,

                         

                        Please remove the line mks.enableMTLRendere=0 from your vmx file and power on the VM, find and open vmware.log and search string "Metal Device", if you are able to see the search result, it means Metal Renderer is already in use, otherwise you can only find string "GL Renderer" from vmware.log.

                         

                        Regards,

                        -Rick

                        • 9. Re: Metal Renderer not working on 10.13 HOS with Windows 10 guest
                          RickShu Expert
                          VMware Employees

                          Hi Thicot,

                           

                          Are you using Non-English locale in your Mac Host?

                           

                          Regards,

                          -Rick

                          • 10. Re: Metal Renderer not working on 10.13 HOS with Windows 10 guest
                            Thicot Novice

                            Yes, I use French locale on my Mac host, I saw an update this morning Fusion 10.0.1 fixing a bug with non english systems... so weird for an international company to not think about it at first!

                            • 11. Re: Metal Renderer not working on 10.13 HOS with Windows 10 guest
                              Thicot Novice

                              Last update Fusion 10.0.1 fixes the issue but you have to remove manually the mks.enableMTLRenderer = "0" in your .vmx if you had added it. Performance seems to be OK now.

                              • 12. Re: Metal Renderer not working on 10.13 HOS with Windows 10 guest
                                YuriP Lurker

                                With version 10.0.1 the Metal support is working fine on Windows VMs     .

                                 

                                 

                                The performance is a lot better than old OpenGL based, but still a little inferior than the competitor. The main advantage against it is that some games using DX9 (like B&S) that has some gliches in paralles don't had any problems here.

                                 

                                 

                                The only strange thing with performance is some strange flickering/fast freezes when some objects is loading in vmem that also causes sound glitches.

                                 

                                 

                                As performance comparison with my Macbook Pro using a Intel Iris 550 is bellow:

                                 

                                 

                                Boot Camp - 100% - Bare Metal

                                Parallels - About 70% of bare metal performance but have several graphical artifacts in some games, madeing they unplayable.

                                VMWare - Abou 50% of bare metal performance but without any artifacts, but has some video loading and sound glitches.

                                 

                                 

                                If you can fix the most glitches this will make the Fusion a good alternative to play a lot of games that don't requires full power of the machine without reboot in boot camp.