1 2 Previous Next 15 Replies Latest reply on May 23, 2006 8:45 AM by dpomeroy

    Per User pricing model for hosted desktops

    dpomeroy Virtuoso

      url=http://www.crn.com/sections/breakingnews/breakingnews.jhtml;jsessionid=B3C0UZF1IYZBCQSNDBECKHSCJUMEKJVN?articleId=188100606   VMware To Launch ESX3, VirtualCenter 2 In June /url

       

      This is the interesting part as far as VDI/hosted desktops are concerned:

       

      "Sources close to the Palo Alto, Calif., virtualization giant said VMware plans to offer aggressive pricing on its ESX Server 3 and launch a new per-user pricing model, in part to monetize its increasingly popular enterprise hosted desktop model."

        • 1. Re: Per User pricing model for hosted desktops
          citrix_guy Expert

          Interesting. If they go per user I dont think the math works out... but thats just me.  There are other reasons to go to a VDI setup, but 200 bucks per...  I would assume they are going to have more stuff (features) geared toward VDI in the software, but there isnt. (from a mgmt perspective)

           

          My thing is that while VDI is cool, right now to make it a reality we(the engineers out here pounding our heads against the wall) are taking a server product made ro run servers and running desktops on it. The solution (ESX) was not meant to broker active sessions to desktops and manage these conenctions, session and or apps etc.  Meaning we are using RDP hacking LB'ing software, figuring out ways to find which users are conencted to what etc. .

           

          Anyway, While I think VDI has promise and there are great places to use it, I think that any Per User stuff should be better paired up with a company like Citrix or another TS add on to bring session brokering , monitoring, shadowing, access layer mgmt etc etc to the solution to make it real. I mean even thinking per user licensing means that you ahve to have that type of model in place to monitor the number of users (of which I havent seen at all in the next revs).

           

          Sorry for the rant. It skinda like everyone in the world now "works with Vmware" even if they dont know anything about it, just because its hot. I think that since VDI is a hot topic there is more marketing going on than coding....   Obviously we techs care about the code, not the shiny marketing brochure.

           

           

          Ron

          • 2. Re: Per User pricing model for hosted desktops
            mreferre Virtuoso

            Ron,

             

            >The solution (ESX) was not meant to broker active sessions to desktops >and manage these conenctions, session and or apps etc. Meaning we >are using RDP hacking LB'ing software, figuring out ways to find which >users are conencted to what etc. .

             

            Look at this:

             

            http://www.dunes.ch/vdo3.html

             

            This is just an example. VMware professional services has another in-house developed session broker/manager that they sell as part of a service engagement. Other companies are exploring this area as well.

             

            Massimo.

            • 3. Re: Per User pricing model for hosted desktops
              cerua Enthusiast

              Ron,

               

              >The solution (ESX) was not meant to broker active

              sessions to desktops >and manage these conenctions,

              session and or apps etc. Meaning we >are using RDP

              hacking LB'ing software, figuring out ways to find

              which >users are conencted to what etc. .

               

              Look at this:

               

              http://www.dunes.ch/vdo3.html

               

              This is just an example. VMware professional services

              has another in-house developed session broker/manager

              that they sell as part of a service engagement. Other

              companies are exploring this area as well.

               

              Massimo.

               

              I've seen the solution developed by the VMware professional services group and it's not bad. Some other solutions are by url http://www.propero.com/workspace-for-vmware.htmlPropero[/url] and url http://www.leostream.com/productVHDC.htmlLeostream[/url]. All of these solutions are done by working with url http://www.vmware.com/support/developer/VMware SDKs[/url].

              • 4. Re: Per User pricing model for hosted desktops
                citrix_guy Expert

                No doubt, It is getting closer, but NOT there. The current licesing (for 3.0) is not designed to deal with Per User yet.  And session brokering (while big) is still just one part of the process to ensure a whole sultion for VDI.

                 

                Dont get me wrong I am a consultant and paid to make these things work... so I like missing parts.  BUT with that said, I think this is in its infancy, and not a prime time thing yet. Most of the solutions are extremely lite and missing what I would consider some of the most imporant components.

                 

                Ron

                • 5. Re: Per User pricing model for hosted desktops
                  mreferre Virtuoso

                  Ron,

                   

                  Well, they haven't officially announced 3.0 license ...

                   

                  Also, in terms of infancy,  it really depends on the scope and then all is always relative. If you look at x86 virtualization as a whole ........ that is at its infancy also (i.e. it doesn't have the 20+ years of experience we have on standard Windows on hardware deployments). Official end-to-end support, deep understanding on performance and the effects that virtualization injects into the stack etc etc ..... Quite frankly we are all pioneers (if you consider many people are still running OS/2 in production environments)

                   

                  Massimo.

                  • 6. Re: Per User pricing model for hosted desktops
                    dpomeroy Virtuoso

                    Well, all the details haven't been released yet, but per user pricing should work out to be less money, otherwise what's the point?

                    Lets say you have a 4 way server with the 4CPU VIN license (list $10,000). If you can get 30 VMs running that is $333 per VM, assuming a 1-1 ratio of users per VM, in this case it would be less. Under other scenarios and pricing schemes $200 per user may be more. I think the biggest reason for the move is to make it look more cost competitive with other solutions.

                     

                    I still don't think the whole VDI is ready for prime time yet, but VMware sees this as a big growth area and is obviously dedicating a lot of resources towards it, so I look forward to see what they have coming down the road.

                    • 8. Re: Per User pricing model for hosted desktops
                      kix1979 Champion

                      How do they enforce this per user?  It is going to be a you can turn on X number of desktops?  How can they control the number of users connected to any particular VM?

                      • 9. Re: Per User pricing model for hosted desktops
                        mreferre Virtuoso

                        Kix,

                         

                        why do you think they will enforce u ? After all their enforcement today is pretty weak already (i.e. you can buy 1 esx license and install it on as many servers as you want).

                         

                        Massimo.

                        • 10. Re: Per User pricing model for hosted desktops
                          mreferre Virtuoso

                          Don, you surprise me ....

                           

                          Of course if you compare the cost of a PC against the cost (per user) of vdi it will almost never work. You need to take into accounts all the value proposition of VDI (security, flexibility, etc etc) associate some dollars to these things .... and do the math against the cost of the PC + its operational costs ......

                           

                          Isn't this what we have all done for ESX in the last 5 years ?

                           

                          Massimo.

                          • 11. Re: Per User pricing model for hosted desktops
                            kix1979 Champion

                            Don, you surprise me ....

                             

                            Of course if you compare the cost of a PC against the

                            cost (per user) of vdi it will almost never work. You

                            need to take into accounts all the value proposition

                            of VDI (security, flexibility, etc etc) associate

                            some dollars to these things .... and do the math

                            against the cost of the PC + its operational costs

                            ......

                             

                            Isn't this what we have all done for ESX in the last

                            5 years ?

                             

                            If you remove the soft costs associated with the projects, server consolidation still comes out to the positive in hard dollars for maintenance, cooling, power etc...  If you do the same on the desktop side is will almost never work out.  While adding in soft costs should be considered, we all need to accept the fact that some people don't care and will not look at them.  I had a Citrix project fail because the manager thought it was too expensive, even though his admins reduced their work load 75%.  Perception is key

                             

                            Kix

                            • 12. Re: Per User pricing model for hosted desktops
                              mreferre Virtuoso

                              Kix,

                               

                              I agree. That is true.

                               

                              Also on the server side the perception is better because you can reduce your physical devices (servers) from 20 to 1. On the desktop side at the end of a VDI project you end up moving from 20 devices (desktops) to 21 devices (20 thin clients + 1 server ... at the best). That doesn't help perception.

                               

                              Massimo.

                              • 13. Re: Per User pricing model for hosted desktops
                                meistermn Master

                                I think virtualization of desktop is better done like virtuozzo does it.

                                 

                                Maybe paravirtualization can help for better hosted desktop solution.

                                 

                                Anybody has deeper knowledge about microsoft  child partition?

                                http://www.markwilson.co.uk/blog/2005/10/microsoft-virtualisation-futures.htm

                                 

                                http://www.virtualization.info/2006/05/microsoft-windows-hypervisor-to-have.html

                                 

                                 

                                Meistermn

                                • 14. Re: Per User pricing model for hosted desktops
                                  mreferre Virtuoso

                                  Meistermn,

                                   

                                  in a single 4 lines post you bring into the game virtuozzo, paravirtualization and viridian (MS hypervisor). And none of those seems to really have anything to do (at least so far) with hosted desktops .......

                                   

                                  Where are your trying to get to ?

                                   

                                  Massimo.

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