1 48 49 50 51 52 Previous Next 1,981 Replies Latest reply on Aug 21, 2012 2:40 PM by scowse Go to original post Branched to a new discussion.
      • 735. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
        SeverusSnaper85559 Lurker

        I agree with you all. The new licensing model is worse on the SMB side. Too bad! http://www.imagicon.info/cat/5-59/1.gif

        • 736. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
          wuffers Novice

          tomaddox wrote:

           

          Please keep us posted on the results of this survey! Admittedly, this is going to be self-selecting based on people who are already cranky about the licensing and reading this thread, but I would very much like to know how things work out.

          If you haven't taken the survey, go here:

          http://wuffers.net/2011/07/18/vsphere-5-migration-survey

           

          Here are some preliminary results, based on 139 samples so far. I added KVM as a virtualization platform as well as the Essentials and Essentials Plus after polls opened so results are slightly skewed (perhaps 40 or so were answered without those options).

           

          Which VMware version are you currently running?   

          VMware   Infrastructure 3.x (VI3)2.16%
          VMware vSphere 4.x97.84%


          Under which VMware architecture?   

          ESX20.86%
          ESXi79.14%

             
          VMware Edition?   

          Essentials1.44%
          Essentials Plus2.16%
          Standard15.11%
          Advanced4.32%
          Enterprise37.41%
          Enterprise Plus39.57%

             
          Was a VMware virtualization project planned before the new vSphere 5 licensing scheme announcement?   

          Yes81.29%
          No18.71%

             
          Did the new license (vRAM entitlement) change your mind on upgrading to vSphere 5?   

          Yes90.65%
          No9.35%

             
          Have you already bought new bigger and better hardware for your planned vSphere 5 deployment?   

          Yes46.04%
          No53.96%

             
          Do you think that the new license (vRAM entitlement) will affect your current or future VMware plans?   

          Yes95.68%
          No4.32%

             
          Has this new licensing scheme changed your mind to consider another virtualization platform?   

          Yes92.81%
          No7.19%

             
          Which hypervisor are you considering or are currently evaluating based on this announcement?   

          Citrix XenServer40.25%
          Linux KVM10.59%
          Microsoft Hyper-V41.10%
          Oracle VirtualBox2.12%
          Other5.93%

             
          Do you still have plans to move forward with vSphere 5 or have you put your project on hold? 

          Yes (move forward)15.11%
          No (on hold)84.89%

           

          Some select comments:

           

          "In Europe, I'm pretty sure we could organise a law case. SnS paying parties are supposed to have upgrade rights, and this is not true anymore for people that have to pay more for an upgrade on their current infrastructure. Furthermore, it is easy to show that vmware past incentives to obtain 3 years of SnS for lower prices, and their marketing push to consolidate as much as possible on fewer host can now be seen as a scam. It still possible for vmware to either stay with the current price model, go for a model based on the cores, adapt the vRam limits (and have a clear plan in the future to raise those limits gradually), or anything more acceptable than their v5 licensing."

           

          "I contract for a branch of the military and we are no longer considering a guaranteed Vsphere 5.x upgrade.  Not that one wouldn't go forward eventually but in my line of work progress is slower than corporate America so we are fine sticking to 4.1 for now and evaluating our options for the next few years.  Before the new licensing model, there was no need for an evaluation."

           

          "I always like to keep upgraded but with the new restrictions on vRAM I plan on holding out on any change while I wait for Hyper-V to get better and them move some, if not all, to Hyper-V.   Hyper-V was always an attracive solitoin for a larger part of servers but I liked using one system for all but with the new hand cuffs VMWare is going to use I will have to move because of the costs."

           

          "we are vmware partners, have just about unlimited licenses that we can use internally, however some of our customers are affected pretty badly by this new licencing scheme. and quite honestly, i cannot/would not recommend vsphere to them any more. and this goes to _all_ our customers. worst thing that could happen to kvm (not rhev) is it's abandoned. worst thing that could happen to vsphere, i (dare to) have no idea. "

           

          "10 Years I have been a VMware Consultant and one of the original VCP's ever certified. 100% of my clients are asking me for alternatives to consider in the next 30 days and at this time all 100% are going to leave their licenses at 4.1 until further change from VMware and their licensing occurs."

           

          The results so far are representative of the mood of this thread. I think we're the early adopters that have grasped the implications of this licensing change, and perhaps not alot in the industry have clued in yet. I'll try to get this survey out a bit more, you guys are more than welcome to do the same and drop the link elsewhere.

           

          http://wuffers.net/2011/07/18/vsphere-5-migration-survey

           

          Jump to round 2 results here: http://communities.vmware.com/message/1796797#1796797

          • 737. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
            djak44 Enthusiast

            Dear All,

             

            I suggest that this is  a one off PSOD (Purple screen of death) and then you reboot and ALL is back to normal, But people at VMware need to address this issue NOW, even with something like “we are looking into it”, I have not read the whole 50 pages regarding this issue, but it is quite hot and I have read the licensing document, and something is not right, giving 48GB/Processor is a bit greedy when people are talking about Terabytes for a while now. The second thing is that why would you put a licensing system that charges per VM. Because I can understand paying for an operating system per node but not by the number of nodes sharing the same operating system, I am not sure if I am saying this in the correct way. I still believe there is an issues with the previous licensing model because there are just many of them (The express, the kit, ....), why not just Standard/Enterprise. I hate to say that people at VMware became suddenly very very greedy. The licensing document (white paper) in the FAQ section:

             

            “Although it is impossible to predict the effects of the new model in every type of environment, the licensing model has been designed to minimize the risk of potential impacts in existing environments while also providing room for growth. vRAM entitlements have been set to provide enough capacity to scale well beyond today’s average consolidation ratios of 5:1. In addition, thanks to pooling, customers will be able to share entitlements among multiple hosts, thereby making more efficient use of available capacity”

             

            This is good but how much???

            VMware always delivered the goods right time and with right attitude; do not let greed take it away. Hope this will be fixed soon and give away few licenses for free, just think if every node in the world is virtualized, VMware still make trillions using the old licensing model.

            • 738. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
              aroudnev Enthusiast

              I think that new model comes from cloud providers. VMware did not realize that there is a HUGE difference between these providers and small/medium businesses:

              - providers don't have 4 - 10x memory over-subscription (they can't control VM usage). IN contrast, 10x memory oversubscription is absolutely normal on developers and test environments.

              - providers has a high cpu usage (you dpnt want to pay for VM whcih is not used). Enterprises has a very low CPU usage and so they can allocate much more memory per CPU vs providers.

              - providers has a huge memory and CPU counts. medium IT can't encourage CFO to pay $20K for VM licenses, so they move in small steps - free ESXi, Essential, Essential+, enterprise. Proposed schema remove Essential from consideration so it kills the only bridge from free VM technologies to the enterprise ones, so cutting out many potential users.

              - 24 GB per CPU is funny number even in 2011; ESXi is for next 5 - 6 years, and this number makes every professional to smile. The reasonable vRAM per 1 socket is even now 64 - 128 GB and will became more and more every year. We need aprpxomately 128 GB of RAM to fully utilize CPU on DELL 710R servers (2 CPU sockets) when we run Vmware ESXi on them (else we have CPU underused and CPU overused), and this is just TODAY.

               

               

              But I can say that I don't see how VMware can keep small/medium business markets with ESX5 licensing model. 5 years ago they did not have a good competitors; today they have many, and have on both _FREE and almost FREE boundary_ and _EXPENSIVE CLOUD BOUNDARY_. When I read all these _XEN vs VMware_ articles, I always laugh because in reality there are a ways top do the same things 2 - 10x cheaper then they calculate and it really helps to bring new customers to the technology (Essential is a very important for VMware not only as a way to attract small businesses but as a way to make a step-by-step cost increase for medium size IT). So, I can't predict what will happens, but I can predict that those who propose this model in VMware will not have a bonuses in 2011 year because they caused a huge harm to the comp[any PR and market position already (no matter what they change next). let's keep tuned to them and see what will happen.

               

              (I was really surprised when saw their new model and made a few calculations and then compared with the real installation - it showed 2x - 20x cost increase in ALL cases).

              • 739. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                scowse Enthusiast

                You are on the money here mate - so to speak.

                 

                Most of the OPs are caught up in a world of bitterness, emotion, betrayal, rejection and disappointment and cannot see the writing on the wall.

                 

                Get over it!

                 

                Vmware does not care.

                 

                I am not sure that they are laughing in our face but certainly will be laughing all the way to the bank!

                 

                Why muck around with thousands of customers when you can make more money from just a few?

                 

                This is the long running and successful Rolls Royce marketing model.

                • 741. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                  Josh26 Master

                  Hi,

                   

                  I am currently on annual leave until 25th July. For support queries, please refer to our helpdesk, helpdesk@daraco.com.au.

                   

                  For sales queries, please contact mjarvis@daraco.com.au.

                  • 742. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                    vmwareking Novice

                    XenServer is licensed per Host!

                     

                    XenServer      Free

                    XenServer Advanced     - $1000/per server RRP USD

                    XenServer Enterprise    - $2500/per server RRP USD

                    XenServer Platinum      - $5000/per server RRP USD

                     

                     

                    check out the Edition - www.citrix.com/xenserver/editions

                     

                    Here is a XenServer vs VMware Cost Calc - http://virtualizationandstorage.wordpress.com/2011/06/30/vmware-vsphere-vs-citrix-xenserver-cost-calculator/

                     

                    XenServer Free Edition includes XenMotion and SnapShots for Free..

                     

                    Check out the XenServer Beta - www.citrix.com/xenserver/beta

                    • 743. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                      hellraiser Enthusiast

                      Is it just me or has this thread reached such a size that it is now causing weirdness with the forum software?  It told me there were 51 pages of replies, then when I went to page 51 it said there were none, and now it says the last post was on the 12th July.....

                       

                      Help!

                       

                      JD

                      • 744. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                        GVD Novice

                        Justin Devereaux wrote:

                         

                        Is it just me or has this thread reached such a size that it is now causing weirdness with the forum software?  It told me there were 51 pages of replies, then when I went to page 51 it said there were none, and now it says the last post was on the 12th July.....

                         

                        Help!

                         

                        JD

                         

                        I suspect Mods are just cleaning out the thread every once in a while too. (Which is not inherently a bad thing since obviously mentions of competitors are left untouched)

                        This morning there were 51 pages, I clicked from page 50 to 51, and got this message:

                         

                        "There are no visible messages in this discussion. This can  happen if messages have been hidden by a moderator, or have been  reported as abusive."

                         

                        I suspect this was cleaned out a bit, causing page 51 to be invalid by the time I clicked it.

                        • 745. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                          Marcel1967 Enthusiast

                          It seems Paul Maritz, CEO of VMware is not impressed by at least the number of hits, arguments against the new policy, real world data and complaints this thread gets.

                          Yesterday July 19, when Q2 results of VMware were reported, he said "We believe that 95 percent of customers will see no change in their licensing costs. From our calculations, most customers will see no change and won't be required to pay us more money," Maritz said in a Q&A during VMware's Q2 earnings call.

                          "At the higher end of the market, with customers that are squeezing every last drop and getting a high level of utilization out of their infrastructure, that's where [vSphere 5 licensing] will scale up," Maritz said. "That's a fair bargain to make, because that’s when they will start to get the full benefits of the cloud model."

                           

                          http://www.crn.com/news/data-center/231002148/vmware-ceo-maritz-tries-to-clear-air-on-vsphere-licensing.htm

                           

                          Dutch press translated his sayings in 'vSphere 5 remains a bargain'

                           

                          As said earlier in this thread, VMware seems to be slowly shifting its focus from the SMB market with low margins to the enterprise and enterprise plus markets. Large enterprises ready for private cloud and charge back models. SMB market will probably be surrendered to Microsoft and Citrix with their low cost to free solutions.

                          • 746. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                            MarkStrong Hot Shot

                            GVD wrote:

                             

                            Justin Devereaux wrote:

                             

                            Is it just me or has this thread reached such a size that it is now causing weirdness with the forum software?  It told me there were 51 pages of replies, then when I went to page 51 it said there were none, and now it says the last post was on the 12th July.....

                             

                            Help!

                             

                            JD

                             

                            I suspect Mods are just cleaning out the thread every once in a while too. (Which is not inherently a bad thing since obviously mentions of competitors are left untouched)

                            This morning there were 51 pages, I clicked from page 50 to 51, and got this message:

                             

                            "There are no visible messages in this discussion. This can  happen if messages have been hidden by a moderator, or have been  reported as abusive."

                             

                            I suspect this was cleaned out a bit, causing page 51 to be invalid by the time I clicked it.

                            I think it is because "vmwareking" has posted multiple identical messages and they got on the next page (page 51).

                            • 747. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                              vmroyale Guru

                              Hello.

                               

                              There were a lot of duplicate posts from one user in this discussion and someone had reported it to the moderators.  We cleaned them up, so this would explain the drop from 51 pages to 50.

                               

                              Good Luck!

                              • 748. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                                allenb1121 Novice

                                I noticed that it was starting to act strangely after about 8 pages...  I have just been following/replying through e-mail, because it was so frustrating to try to use the forum.

                                Allen B.

                                 

                                 

                                Allen Beddingfield

                                Systems Engineer

                                The University of Alabama

                                • 749. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                                  wdroush1 Hot Shot

                                  Marcel1967 wrote:

                                   

                                  It seems Paul Maritz, CEO of VMware is not impressed by at least the number of hits, arguments against the new policy, real world data and complaints this thread gets.

                                  Yesterday July 19, when Q2 results of VMware were reported, he said "We believe that 95 percent of customers will see no change in their licensing costs. From our calculations, most customers will see no change and won't be required to pay us more money," Maritz said in a Q&A during VMware's Q2 earnings call.

                                  "At the higher end of the market, with customers that are squeezing every last drop and getting a high level of utilization out of their infrastructure, that's where [vSphere 5 licensing] will scale up," Maritz said. "That's a fair bargain to make, because that’s when they will start to get the full benefits of the cloud model."

                                   

                                  http://www.crn.com/news/data-center/231002148/vmware-ceo-maritz-tries-to-clear-air-on-vsphere-licensing.htm

                                   

                                  Dutch press translated his sayings in 'vSphere 5 remains a bargain'

                                   

                                  As said earlier in this thread, VMware seems to be slowly shifting its focus from the SMB market with low margins to the enterprise and enterprise plus markets. Large enterprises ready for private cloud and charge back models. SMB market will probably be surrendered to Microsoft and Citrix with their low cost to free solutions.

                                  In before Maritz is a plant from Microsoft.

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