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      • 1,380. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
        kmcferrin Novice

        lawjm wrote:

         

        You are correct (although the last time I looked it was $5 a proc), but I think Justin was talking about people already having the 2008R2 Data Center core software at their fingertips. –John Law

         

        $5/processor for what?  Datacenter Edition is more like $2500-$3000/socket.

        • 1,381. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
          AndrewFerris Lurker

          True but that's list price territory for Datacenter and I hope you're not paying list.

           

          Andrew

          • 1,382. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
            lawjm Novice

            At the Microsoft launch wave they said Hyper-V was going to be $5 a license. Datacenter is much much more.

            • 1,383. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
              kcucadmin Enthusiast

              TysonL wrote:

               

               

              Sadly, VMware has damaged the confidence that I and my team have in them. We have been forced to look at them with a critical eye and realize that VMware will try and screw us if we aren't watchful.

               

              I for one have stopped looking forward to new versions of vSphere. Instead I will look at new versions with a critical eye and consider whether features will be worth the new licensing costs that VMware may impose.

               

              VMware, I used to love you. Now you are just another software company.

               

              I want to echo these sentiments.  VMWare i was truly in awe of the capability and reliability, and ease of transition you brought to the table when it came to Virtualizing our environment.  It's a shame to see the hard work of so many Engineers and Developers squandered over the pure greed that was vram licensing entitlements.  I have lost all "TRUST" in vmware, and in no way can consider to lock in SnS for multi years now, because you just have no idea what is going to happen year to year.

               

              I think it will take many months for the full effect of this flub to be felt.  But the writing is on the wall.  Move over IBM, Novel, Palm, Yahoo. VMWare is about to join you on the pile of squandered potential.

               

              "There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."—President George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002

               

              VMWare shame on you...

              • 1,384. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                bobbach Novice

                I was discussing the new licensing scheme with a buddy who reminded me of some important history regarding VMware.

                 

                Back in the ESX 2.5 days a license covered 2 sockets and dual core processors were just taking hold.

                 

                When ESX 3 arrived we needed a license for every socket and four cores were becoming the norm.

                 

                With vSphere 4 we were given more features and had to pay extra to get them with Enterprise Plus.

                 

                What might make better sense than this vRAM debacle is to license cores in place of sockets, say in 4 core increments. I would prefer to see that VMware take current customers core count and call that the upgrade entitlement and then base all future purchases on the new 4 core increments, that seems logical and fair.

                 

                They make more money, get more in sales and maintenance, we get predictability, scalability, manageability and flexibility back without trying to mess with how much RAM we can afford to allocate to a VM, tiering with another platform or shutting down VMs overnight and on weekends to keep the annual vRAM usage down. We can even keep VMs separated based on function instead of combining them to save memory in order to offset the new model.

                 

                Do I really like paying more, especially with all of the belt tightening? No. But this is a much fairer and more forthright way to keep VMware and us, their customers, in a relatively happy partnership.

                • 1,386. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                  myitanalyst Novice

                  Now that I have seen their changes I will add my thoughts to the many others...

                   

                  The latest changes are an improvement over what they had (for certain use cases), but in the end I find the licensing method to be inadequate and more complicated than it needs to be.

                   

                  I also find that folks using ESXi 4.x with current SnS agreements are getting screwed.  We pay for multiple years of SnS so we can be freely upgraded to new versions only to now have to pay more on top of that.  I have not consulted an attorney, but it is possible there could be a class action lawsuit by all those who have an existing SnS.  Could be totally wrong as I have not read all the details in the agreements, but one does not expect to have to pay more after paying for multiple years of SnS.  Just flat out wrong.  At the minimum they should grandfather anyone who is under current SnS.

                   

                  There are many use cases (some sited here) where us customers are taking a serious financial hit just to move to V5 (even though under current SnS).  The order of magnitude of this hit (although better than a day ago) is still very large.

                   

                  Will VMWare reconsider the licensing after already making one change?  Probably not.  My guess is the will wait and see if there is a falling out large enough for them to re-consider in a future version.

                   

                  It would have been better for them to let everyone know they are making changes and did a bit more study and actual discussion with many existing customers (including ones posting here).  Perhaps they could have came up with something easier to swallow and still allow them to increase their already record earnings.  Nothing wrong with making a profit, but there is a point in this capitalist market where you push it so much that your competition comes in and takes your business right away from you.

                   

                  Will they fall like many others have in the past and get left behind... probably not.  But if it takes falling on your face to cause you to get back up and tread more carefully then so be it.  Competition is good and now the competition has their foot in the door... where previously many would not even think of examining another vendor.

                   

                  Keep listening VMWare...

                  • 1,387. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                    hmtk1976 Enthusiast

                    "What might make better sense than this vRAM debacle is to license cores in place of sockets"

                     

                    No it doesn't.  CPU's change too fast.  Now you 4 and 6 core are common for Intel and 8 and 12 core are common for AMD.  Who knows what upcoming CPU's will exactly be like?  Per core isn't a solution.  Maybe XenServer 6 Beta now installing on my pc is...

                    • 1,388. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                      JAndrews42 Enthusiast

                      Wow, FUD, confusion, hysteria still reign. And people have "lost trust" in VMware due to proposed licensing changes.  Really? and you're going to embrace Microsoft as the pinnacle of trust?  Such short memories in the IT world!

                       

                      Even with v1 of the licensing changes I could not find a client (incl Fortune 100) who would actually be impacted by it, tho of course many are "outraged" over the loss of something they never used.

                       

                      Please let me know the followup on the class-action lawsuit, that is going to amuse me for quite some time.

                       

                      Also, VMware (as mentioned by a few official blogs) did discuss this with their customers, I remember the surveys when they went out and discussed it with clients.

                       

                       

                      If VMware no longer makes financial sense for the project - use what does.  Why rant and rave and go on a tear?  If it works and is within budget, use it - if not, don't. 

                      • 1,389. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                        rjb2 Enthusiast

                        JAndrews wrote:

                         

                        If VMware no longer makes financial sense for the project - use what does.  Why rant and rave and go on a tear?  If it works and is within budget, use it - if not, don't.

                         

                        I only want to add that I hope those who are still unhappy about the pricing will talk to VMWare about their specific situation. My experience has been that they were quite reasonable and took the time to understand and to find a way forward on the business side. Basically, don't let this thread be your sole communication about this matter.

                        • 1,390. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                          tomaddox Enthusiast

                          JAndrews wrote:

                           

                          Wow, FUD, confusion, hysteria still reign. And people have "lost trust" in VMware due to proposed licensing changes.  Really? and you're going to embrace Microsoft as the pinnacle of trust?  Such short memories in the IT world!

                           

                          Even with v1 of the licensing changes I could not find a client (incl Fortune 100) who would actually be impacted by it, tho of course many are "outraged" over the loss of something they never used.

                           

                           

                          Also, VMware (as mentioned by a few official blogs) did discuss this with their customers, I remember the surveys when they went out and discussed it with clients.

                           

                           

                          If VMware no longer makes financial sense for the project - use what does.  Why rant and rave and go on a tear?  If it works and is within budget, use it - if not, don't. 

                           

                          If there's "FUD, confusion, and hysteria," it's because VMware created them. Microsoft may have shafted other tech vendors, but, as a customer, I've never had problems with them.

                           

                          With v1 of the licensing changes, our licensing costs would have literally doubled overnight, so I guess you weren't looking very hard.

                           

                          VMware never brought this issue to our attention. Not once. Never. So, seriously, STFU.

                           

                          As to your last point, yeah, that's pretty much what we all have in mind, so thanks for pointing out what's already said. Your grasp of the blindingly obvious is refreshing. We're going on a tear because we have all historically enjoyed working with VMware and are appalled at this current state of affairs, but clearly that's hard for you to understand.

                           

                          Back under your bridge now.

                          • 1,391. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                            tomaddox Enthusiast

                            rjb2 wrote:

                             

                             

                            I only want to add that I hope those who are still unhappy about the pricing will talk to VMWare about their specific situation. My experience has been that they were quite reasonable and took the time to understand and to find a way forward on the business side. Basically, don't let this thread be your sole communication about this matter.

                             

                            For my part, I was told that yesterday's announcement would "address ALL your concerns," which is pretty far from the truth.

                            • 1,392. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                              kmcferrin Novice

                              myitanalyst wrote:

                               

                               

                               

                              I also find that folks using ESXi 4.x with current SnS agreements are getting screwed.  We pay for multiple years of SnS so we can be freely upgraded to new versions only to now have to pay more on top of that.  I have not consulted an attorney, but it is possible there could be a class action lawsuit by all those who have an existing SnS.  Could be totally wrong as I have not read all the details in the agreements, but one does not expect to have to pay more after paying for multiple years of SnS.  Just flat out wrong.  At the minimum they should grandfather anyone who is under current SnS.

                               

                               

                              I suspect that the reason that they didn't abandon the per-socket bits were specifically to avoid a obvious suit.  Now they can say that if you were previously licensed for X quantity of sockets that they're giving you the upgrade to X quantity of sockets via SnS. Since they didn't license vRAM previously they'll probably get away with it.

                              • 1,393. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                                JAndrews42 Enthusiast

                                You seem to be taking this pretty personally Tom. Do you think They singled you out?

                                • 1,394. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                                  kmcferrin Novice

                                  lawjm wrote:

                                   

                                  At the Microsoft launch wave they said Hyper-V was going to be $5 a license. Datacenter is much much more.

                                   

                                  What launch?  Windows 2008?  Hyper-V has been completely free ever since it launched in November of 2008.

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