VMware Cloud Community
DreadPirateFlin
Contributor
Contributor

Peaks of charts get 'softened'?

Hi there, I've been using Hyperic for a few months now, and its great. Its really been helping me get a grip on what happens when my site gets heavily loaded, and I've already found a few bottlenecks that I might not have otherwise found. Great job, everyone.

I have a question about viewing larger date ranges. I have a metric (lets way web requests per minute). When I'm fairly zoomed in (4 hours view), I see totals that are high- lets say 7,200 requests per minute. But- when I zoom out, I see that same spike only goes as high as 4,329. It would seem that this is by design- perhaps to "smooth" out the graph. I'm wondering if there exists an option to smooth, but preserve the peaks, so I can get actual data on the peaks without having to zoom in to get the actual data value of the peak.

Has there been any discussion of using a flash or java applet to do the charting?

Thanks!

DPF
0 Kudos
6 Replies
admin
Immortal
Immortal

Hi DPF,

Good to hear that HQ has been useful for you, and thanks for the kudos.

The way we store the metric data (it would obviously be unwieldy to
be dealing with all of the data points for larger time ranges) is
that we move and average values into larger granularity tables as
time goes on. So, for example, when you view data for the last 4
days we would look into the table that stores the data at hourly
intervals; but if you view data for the last 4 hours, then we would
look into the table that stores the data at minute intervals. The
way that finer grained data get moved into more coarse data tables is
by storing the average, high, and low values. However, that all gets
displayed in the chart. The blue column displays the average value,
and the overlaying I-beam illustrates the high and low values. Now,
if you are seeing the spike in the very recent past, and the you zoom
out, it could very well be that the value has not been moved to the
more coarse data table yet. Does that make sense?

We have had some discussions around updating the charting with either
flash or other Ajax implementation that would allow you to interact
with the chart more effectively. However, as of yet we do not have a
specific timetable for when that will be implemented. What is your
motivation to see the charts be implemented differently?

Charles



On Nov 7, 2006, at 1:36 PM, DreadPirateFlint wrote:

> Hi there, I've been using Hyperic for a few months now, and its
> great. Its really been helping me get a grip on what happens when
> my site gets heavily loaded, and I've already found a few
> bottlenecks that I might not have otherwise found. Great job,
> everyone.
>
> I have a question about viewing larger date ranges. I have a
> metric (lets way web requests per minute). When I'm fairly zoomed
> in (4 hours view), I see totals that are high- lets say 7,200
> requests per minute. But- when I zoom out, I see that same spike
> only goes as high as 4,329. It would seem that this is by design-
> perhaps to "smooth" out the graph. I'm wondering if there exists
> an option to smooth, but preserve the peaks, so I can get actual
> data on the peaks without having to zoom in to get the actual data
> value of the peak.
>
> Has there been any discussion of using a flash or java applet to do
> the charting?
>
> Thanks!
>
> DPF


0 Kudos
DreadPirateFlin
Contributor
Contributor

Clee,

Thanks for the great explaination regarding how hyperic stores data internal vs how it gets displayed in charts, it clears things up. My motivation regarding charts are really that I'm running a production system without real good load testing on a test cluster- I'm running things on the cheap. As a result, I don't really know when I'm going to overload my application or the systems that I'm running it on, so I'm kinda stuck with monitoring the heck out of it- I'm really using charts extensively as a method of determining what my new peak values for things are, and comparing them to past data. This is why the apparent 'softening' of the peaks was some concern for me- in order to determine what the actual values were, I have to find a peak, then zoom down to that time period to get the actual numbers. Granted, peaks are still relative to other peaks, so for general trends it is okay. I assume that what I'm trying to use charts for isn't really what they're supposed to be used for. A flash/java applet (I would imagine) would allow me to drill down a little quicker, is all.

I've done a little bit of work integrating various flash charting packages for my own app, and a lot of them seem to rely on an external HTTP call to get XML-based chart data, so a possible first step in that direction could be the development of an API that just takes a metric, resource and date range and produces some sort of XML export (hyperic may have this already, I haven't looked), that it would be easy to stick inside some wrapper, depending on which charting mechanism you wanted to go with. Just thinking aloud here...

Thanks for taking the time to respond!

/DPF
0 Kudos
DreadPirateFlin
Contributor
Contributor

Oh, BTW- the particular chart I was looking at was Requests Per Minute (vhosts) with several vhosts overlayed, so I was seeing the multi-resource chart with the colored lines, not the chart with the I-Beams that you referred to. I checked out that chart and its much more descriptive (and accurate (and doesn't really display the 'softening' I was talking about before). Thanks again!

/kurt
0 Kudos
admin
Immortal
Immortal

Hi DPF,

Thanks for the feedback. Glad to hear that you find value in the
data that we provide. We are absolutely investigating better
charting libraries, and making them more interactive. Flash is
definitely an option, as well as SVG. Exporting the data through XML
is fairly trivial for HQ. I'd definitely be interested in hearing
about anything that you have researched.

Charles

0 Kudos
Morten_hyperic
Contributor
Contributor

We provide monthly SLAs to management and one of the items is availability, so one way of getting this data is to set the date range to 30 days, the problem we have is that an outage for 10 minutes some day in the month gets averaged due to the wide range out and we loose/miss the outage since we can't see it. Just another thing to think of
0 Kudos
ravikumar_hyper
Contributor
Contributor

0 Kudos