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mgmoore7
Contributor
Contributor

Help Me Decide - VMWare or MS Virtual Server

No I know I am on a VMWare site but it can still help. I am planning a server to host 4 guest MS Windows 2003 systems.

Most of the articles I have read that compare the two give little to no real world experience but rather just the facts.

A couple things that seem to be going for VMWare that I am not sure about with MS is that VMWare appears to support multiple processors. The server I have, has 2 Xeon procs. VMWare also has the converter,I have not found the same for MS VS.

Anything else, you can think of. Anyone used both and went with one or the other for particular reasons or have you been through the same decision process and have some comments..

Thanks.

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11 Replies
kharbin
Commander
Commander

Well for starters, committment. VMware is committed to virtualization. Microsoft flip-flops, their into it, then they're not, then its going to be in Longhorn, maybe. Typical FUD tactics.

Next, innivation. Microsoft has innovatted absolutely nothing in the virtualization market. So far, they have bought Connectix, rebranded the product, and my favorite, removed/reduced the functionality of the product. Why would they take features away?? Probably because theres no committment from their end.

Add on prodcuts, utilities, consultants, etc. There are a lot of really good add-ons for VMware, no so much for MS VS. There are a lot of good VMware consultants that understand virtualization as a whole, not just the MS software stack.

Personal beneifts. VMware is a much more impressive resume item then MS VS and will take you farther when looking for your next job.

VMTN. With VMware you have an entire community that lives this stuff and are always willing to help out. Lot of good people and info in one place.

Performance. VMware has had 7 years to perfect their hypervisor. MS has had troubles with theirs, and MS never been know for the "blazing speed" of any of their products.

Patch Tuesday. Great its patch Tuesday, that means my host has to be updated also. Let me shut down every VM, patch my host, and "Oh shi?!!", damn patch broke my virtualization layer, can't turn my VMs on. I'll just unistall the patch. No, its a MS patch, can't uninstall. Now what???? Damn patch Tueesday.

Microsoft solution to application troubleshooting. Install the application on a physical server and duplicate the problem, then we will believe it is real. Otherwise go away, no help for you.

Until last year, Microsoft itself used VMware. Thats how a support rep had quick access to Win98, W2k, W2k3, Exchange server, etc. Because all virtual and at their finger tips. It wasn't until it became "public knowledge" that MS used VMware that they announced "new and improved support capabilites using MS VS", blah blah blah.

Roadmap. Virtual Server, now its free, now its not, now its free again, now its off market now back, no wait, now going to be part of next OS, maybe. Danger, curves ahead.

For me its a matter of committment and innovation. I want a vendor that in this market for the long hual, not because its the new buzz word. I want a vendor that leads the way in innovation, not one that just copies what the leader does. And I like to hang with the leader. Why would I want to hang with a distant 4th place palyer?

And most important, esXpress only runs on vMware, not MS.

Well, my 2 cents on that subject.

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RDPetruska
Leadership
Leadership

My experience with MS's Virtual Server was very brief. I downloaded it, installed it, and then tried for about 1/2 hour to figure out what happened, where it installed, and what the F&$%*@ to do next! No shortcuts created; no help file; absolutely no nothing! I uninstalled it, and haven't looked back.

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tarrysingh
Contributor
Contributor

Same here.

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MarkNorman
Contributor
Contributor

I wouldn't think that a virtualized environment consisting of 4 VM's would justify the cost of ESX server.

Depending on how much time you have up your sleeve, I suggest you have some fun and play with both MS Virtual server 2005 and VMWARE Server. Both are free. Have a play, and do some performance testing with Iometer.

Remember from a licensing point of view; with MS Virtual Server you can pay for 1 win2003 enterprise license and the OS licenses of the virtual machines are free. This is not the case with VMWARE server.

PS. I am not an MS diehard... ESX is an awesome product, but you need to use the right solution for the problem

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RDPetruska
Leadership
Leadership

>Remember from a licensing point of view; with MS Virtual Server you can pay for 1 win2003 enterprise license and the OS licenses of the virtual machines are free. This is not the case with VMWARE server.

From everything I've read this is not true. MS licensing says you can purchase one Win2003 Enterprise and run up to 4 virtual machines for no additional OS license cost. It does NOT specify that you must run those virtual machines on a MS product.

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SyverDude
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Just a note for your reference. SMP on a 2 way xeon (Unless it is a dual core) will take a performance hit because a 2 way smp guest on a 2 way server will have interupts because the console os is executing privilaged processes.

Make sure you have Cpu.ConsoleMinCpu set to about 15% in order to keep the wait %ready reading in esxtop low.

\- Jon

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MarkNorman
Contributor
Contributor

You are right- When running Win2003 Enterprise only the first 4 virtual machines are licensed.

However, if you run Datacenter edition, then all vm's are automatically licensed. Not sure why you would pay the cost for Datacenter though- just buy ESX Smiley Happy

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petedr
Virtuoso
Virtuoso

kharbin makes a lot of good points. We have been a vmware shop from almost their beginnings ( original GSX days ) and have not looked back.

www.thevirtualheadline.com www.liquidwarelabs.com
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Big_Ry
Contributor
Contributor

Speaking as somebody who has installed MS VS R2 in a production environment......NEVER EVER do it !

If you're looking to host a couple of SIMPLE low useage servers then it's ok , but VMWare Server is better.

We created a W2K3 host, installed MSVS, and then created a virtual DC, SMS 2003 and W2K3 F&P. It worked ok, but there are so many gotcha's that nobody seemed to know anything about. The VS Admin console isn't very intuative, and seemed to sporadically fail to load due to IE security settings, or refuse to let you log in using dom ad credentials. We had to write a script to auto start the VM's just in case we couldn't log in. I know they can be set to autostart....but we didn't for various reasons.

I'm a MS man through and through (it pays the mortgage), but I'm certainly level headed enough to state when they have a bad product. I was hoping that Veridien would be up to scratch, but judging by the info released on Friday, it looks likely to be a waste of time....for now anyway.

Just my humble opinion.

Ryan

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ejewett
Contributor
Contributor

MarkNorman wrote, "Not sure why you would pay the cost for Datacenter though- just buy ESX "

If you run Windows Server on ESX, you still have to license Windows Server. So, if you "just buy ESX" you still have to but Windows Server licenses.

If you are running 4+ VMs per socket on ESX, then Windows Server Datacenter Edition licensed for each socket is the cheapest way to license Windows Server. And, you can run Standard and/or Enterprise edition in the VMs.

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mgmoore7
Contributor
Contributor

Thanks everyone for all the comments/suggestions. I decided to go with VMWare Server and have been running an application on it for several days and have been very pleased with the ease of use and performance. I still have alot of learning to do but I am getting there.

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