VMware Cloud Community
sjuull
Contributor
Contributor

ESX lite

Just ran into this article

http://searchservervirtualization.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid94_gci1260992,00.html

This sounds pretty smart, getting the virtualization layer even thinner and closer to the hardware......

anyone that can confirm this rumor ?

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52 Replies
daniel_uk
Hot Shot
Hot Shot

Emmmmm not so sure Massimo, Ive seen it come from a DELL Reps mouth in a presentation in front of 40+ CIO's, imagine the multiples of resource below them that will have this information given to them.

Im going to wait until VMworld and see whether they have a demo on show, seeing is beleiving Smiley Happy As a lot of companies seem to talk the talk but never walk it!

Dan

PS So glad ive had my 50KB of Fame on a news site Smiley Happy

Dan

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mreferre
Champion
Champion

Well Dan this assumes that the Dell sales rep know what a BIOS is and how it works. Perhaps you are giving too much credit to the category... Smiley Wink

I have also heard someone mentioning as having "ESX on the motherboard" (as opposed to the BIOS). This is a very loos statement since, technically, you can even have a standard SAS hard drive "on the motherboard". This very same article for example speculate that you could see "An embedded version residing in memory" ......... Memory? Which memory? A disk could be "memory" ...... etc etc etc

In my opinion people are leveraging the situation to find the most effective/shocking "statements" ......... After all stating that a server has "the hypervisor in the firmware" is very cool ..... isn't it? It looks like those very high-end eneterpise proprietary boxes .......

Reality is that we are not quite there yet. Quite frankly I don't see how one would be able to put an hypervisor (specifically of the nature of ESX which is a relatively big beast even if you streap down it removing the Service Console etc etc) into a BIOS or a firmware. It has to be more of an on-board "disk" (whether it will be standard SAS/SCSI, solid state etc etc ... it's a detail).

I guess we will know more down the road.

Massimo.

Massimo Re Ferre' VMware vCloud Architect twitter.com/mreferre www.it20.info
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daniel_uk
Hot Shot
Hot Shot

Yep, I dont disagree with that. Im neutral (dont work for a vendor Smiley Wink ) and open to what will emerge from this.

Techinically how can you even future proof and make a solution like this cost effective with things like new releases and patching adding to the size of complete ESX footprint.

Trial until proven guilty for me Smiley Happy

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TomHowarth
Leadership
Leadership

physical upgrade, nice little earner Smiley Wink

Tom Howarth VCP / VCAP / vExpert
VMware Communities User Moderator
Blog: http://www.planetvm.net
Contributing author on VMware vSphere and Virtual Infrastructure Security: Securing ESX and the Virtual Environment
Contributing author on VCP VMware Certified Professional on VSphere 4 Study Guide: Exam VCP-410
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mreferre
Champion
Champion

Dan,

just so we are on the same page ....while I do work for a vendor I am trying to keep my discussions neutral. The fact that this is a Dell oriented discussion is a detail to me ..... I am more focused on the technology discussion / feasability for the matter ..... that is what I am interested in ....

Massimo.

Massimo Re Ferre' VMware vCloud Architect twitter.com/mreferre www.it20.info
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Ken_Cline
Champion
Champion

I agree with Massimo. My guess (and it's just a guess!) is that you'll see something like open-e's[/url] "disk on module" that allows you to have an "ESX Appliance". This "puts ESX on the motherboard" and, if you want to stretch a little, you could consider this to be "ESX in non-volatile storage"

To be honest, there's nothing preventing someone from doing this today, with the current version of VI-3, other than the fact that there's still too much state information stored locally on an ESX box (but there are ways to work around that Smiley Wink )

Ken Cline VMware vExpert 2009 VMware Communities User Moderator Blogging at: http://KensVirtualReality.wordpress.com/
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mreferre
Champion
Champion

Exactly Ken.

My only point was that, from a marketing perspective, this would literally be a "ESX on BIOS (or motherboard)". However we geeks know that this is not architecturally[/b] different than having the state-of-the-art ESX installed on a couple of traditional 2 x raid1 drives ......

Well I am very downplaying it here (which is not my real intent) .... there are things going on that could make this deployment method more attractive/secure/easy etc etc etc ...... compared to a standard ESX install ....... but at the same time one can't state that this is like turning the ESX we know today into a "firmware" type of thing (like on UNIX/mainframe boxes) ...... because it's not.

Massimo.

Massimo Re Ferre' VMware vCloud Architect twitter.com/mreferre www.it20.info
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DougBaer
Commander
Commander

Conceptually, this is similar to the way that Virtual Iron handles their host machines: PXE boot to a central image. They're just chucking the boot image into a chip on the board.

Definitely an attractive concept for IT shops wanting to virtualize, but not wanting to worry about training people on Linux to manage the SC. Like it or not, VMware's largest penetration seems to be with Windows shops. My concern would be around security -- if it is an appliance, are there default passwords and accounts? What does that look like from a security and compliance perspective?

Having stateless hosts is pretty attractive, and VMware seems to have been going towards more of an appliance model with ESX.

NB: I also work for a vendor and would be interested in seeing a VM blade-appliance from HP. Mmmm... DR... Smiley Wink

Doug Baer, Solution Architect, Advanced Services, Broadcom | VCDX #019, vExpert 2012-23
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mreferre
Champion
Champion

>if it is an appliance, are there default passwords and accounts? What

>does that look like from a security and compliance perspective?

even if there will be a default id/pwd account you will just be able to change it right after deployment. I don't see this as being a big issue.

Actually cutting the CoS from the picture can only improve security as you are getting rid of the most unsecure portion of the whole stack.

Massimo.

Massimo Re Ferre' VMware vCloud Architect twitter.com/mreferre www.it20.info
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DougBaer
Commander
Commander

Agreed. Reduction of the attack service is a good thing.

However, it seems that the VMkernel would need to be directly accessible rather than having the CoS effectively proxy the connection.

I don't know how many people maintain user accounts within the CoS. I would imagine that the appliance would simply rely on VC for authentication beyond the root-equivalent. Integration of THAT into the VMkernel would seem like a giant step in the wrong direction.

Doug Baer, Solution Architect, Advanced Services, Broadcom | VCDX #019, vExpert 2012-23
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mreferre
Champion
Champion

>However, it seems that the VMkernel would need to be directly accessible

>rather than having the CoS effectively proxy the connection.

This is an implementation detail and clearly getting rid of the COS is not just an "rm" of some files .... Smiley Wink

As per maintaining a user database ..... clearly, as you have mentioned, that would be a step in the wrong direction ..... so I doubt that they will make it .... Smiley Happy

This is already a bad practice today .... and in the future it will be even more so if we move towards stateless building blocks.

Massimo.

Massimo Re Ferre' VMware vCloud Architect twitter.com/mreferre www.it20.info
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Gui
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

if we are talking esx lite or esx in a bios. i would like to think in an appliance type of way.

the largest appliance makers use cf cards for their osses (netapp) and put a os on the hdd's in the system.

the nicest idea would be to have a esx hypervisor on a cf card and the rest on a lun on a san. that most of us use any how because of vmotion.

ít could be a black box with a lot of memory and fc or iscsi for san connectivity and enough cpu's.

the box could be small but easy to maintain.

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Fedde
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

After another meeting with Dell it looks like this now:

Alternative 1:

\- 2u size

\- 2 sockets for processors

\- 12 slots for RAM, max 128 Mb RAM (a bit vague from the Dell rep)

\- 4 integrated Gb Nics

\- 4 slots for expansion cards

\- 2 slots for harddrives

\- optional embedded Esx hypervisor (on a solid state disk),

no need for local harddrives if solid state disk is used and the

server is connected to some kind of shared storage for storing

virtual machines

Alternative 2:

\- 3u or 4u size, 4u size more likely (this was a bit vague from the Dell rep)

\- 4 sockets for processors

\- 32 slots for RAM, max 256 Mb RAM

\- 4 integrated Gb Nics

\- 4 slots for expansion cards (should be more if 4u size? again a bit vague from the Dell rep)

\- 2 slots for harddrives

\- optional embedded Esx hypervisor (on a solid state disk),

no need for local harddrives if solid state disk is used and the

server is connected to some kind of shared storage for storing

virtual machines

The "embedded Esx hypervisor" is nothing special, it's Esx Server 3.x,

there's no Esx lite according to this Dell rep and also according to a

Vmware rep we meet at the same time.

/Fedde

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Fedde
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Alternative 1:

- 12 slots for RAM, max 128 Mb RAM (a bit vague from

the Dell rep)

Sorry for my typo, it was of course 16 slots for RAM, max 128 Mb RAM.

/Fedde

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mreferre
Champion
Champion

This is interesting (i.e. funny).

Originally this was picthed as "ESX in the BIOS" ... now it has become a "standard ESX 3.x pre-install"....

My suggestion is .... don't count on these fuds .... these are people that have limited understanding about the technical details. Those that really know have their mouths closed.

My 0.0000002 cents.

Massimo.

Massimo Re Ferre' VMware vCloud Architect twitter.com/mreferre www.it20.info
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c_g-hills
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Sorry for my typo, it was of course 16 slots for RAM,

max 128 Mb RAM.

128 GB, surely?

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Fedde
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Sorry for my typo, it was of course 16 slots for

RAM,

max 128 Mb RAM.

128 GB, surely?

Yes, of course 128 Gb RAM.

Sorry for my typo.

/Fedde

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meistermn
Expert
Expert

If it is 128 GB then it must be 16 Dimm slots.

The greates GB Modules will be 8 GB.

So 128 GB / 8GB = 16 DImm Slots.

And 16 Dimm slots / 2 CPU = 8 Dimm SLots per cpu socket.

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mreferre
Champion
Champion

out of curiosity .... how much would these 8GB dimm modules cost in real life?

The risk here is that of buying a low cost apartment (yet with a big mortgage) and decide to furnish it with golden teapots ..........

It's easy to say that with 256GB memory dimms you can get to 256*16= 4TBytes of memory ...... but you have to pay for that .... Smiley Wink

Massimo.

Massimo Re Ferre' VMware vCloud Architect twitter.com/mreferre www.it20.info
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daniel_uk
Hot Shot
Hot Shot

Haha Mass I am of the same opinion! Do they even manufacture 8GB slots yet!?

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