Certified Virtualization Expert (CVE)

[JDLangdon]

Does anyone know who owns and recognizes the Certified Virtualization Expert (CVE) designation? The course is being offered after Christmas but if this is isn't widely recognized, I'd rather hold out for the DSA course.

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Jason D. Langdon

[williambishop]

Agreed, virtualization is such a large and complicated environment that it borders on the ridiculous that a single test can cover even a small percentage of it, and from what I've read and heard, it's rather thin with the CVE....

You can of course take the high end vmware class, test, and proctor the lab at some point, then I will agree that a test covers it adequately....but I'm guessing it's going to be much like the CCIE, one test....but one HELL of a test, I've taken the CCNP tests, and I know now that I'm not insane enough for the CCIE, I won't even try.

I like our method, you can put that you're a vcp, or that you are virtualization expert on your resume, but we're going to sit you down for the practical part of our hiring process and have you build an esx cluster, including a linux server with an NFS mount point as the shared storage. Where the rubber meets the road, there's a job. If you're paper (and I consider the class to be the barest, thinnest minimum, and the test only moderately better--therefore a paper VCP), you're not going to make it. If you can do it in under 30 minutes, We'll consider you trainable. There's nothing like the look of panic when you tell someone, "Here's three boxes, put linux and an NFS mount point on one, and build 2 esx hosts on the others. I want a capable environment at your earliest convenience." It's not unfair, you don't want someone who can't do the simplest tasks....We even give them internet access to look it up (I look up commands all of the time). But you learn important things about a candidate in that first moment. Will they panic under pressure? Can they hack it? Are they smart enough to realize that even if it was a system they'd never seen before, they could do it with the internet's help?

That's why I'm excited about the proctored lab for the high end vmware certification, and why I have no value for any microsoft certification (though I do hold a few.....mostly in contempt )

[JDLangdon]

From a laughter standpoint, I wonder who would be more marketable in that aspect.

You've just proven my point exactly in that the certification offers a false sense of marketability. It is one course which prepares you for one exam which covers the products of one virtualization company, this does not qualify you as an expert in anything. It does not even qualify you as an expert in VMware.

Considering that the bootcamp covers the VMware install and config and DSA courses, it would have made more sense if the certification was something like Certified VMware Engineer, but to call yourself an expert because you passed one exam which consisted of 80 questions based on VMware technologies is false marketing.

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Jason D. Langdon

[Texiwill]

Hello,

I have been on both sides of this equation and it truly depends on how respected the certification is. For example, those that have the CCIE, that is a well respected certification. The CCE is also a well respected certification. IN some circles, the RHCE is also well respected. I am also sure there is a Microsoft certification that is well respected.

The question is why the CVE is available. It is to make money while they can or to offer a service to the community? Does it have any meaning in the community? It also depends on why the certification is required? as well as what is required to get the certification?

Most certifications are just a check box for hiring but not necessarily required. I have seen plenty of people with certifications that could not do the most basic of tasks in a timely and efficient manner. In my past jobs we had to get them because management wanted us to do so. Not that they actually 'changed' our jobs or made us more marketable.

Yes I hold a VCP and RHCE but I got these based on my previous jobs requirements more than a real need to have them at the time. However, I do need the VCP to work with VMware at the level I desire, but that is more the price of doing business.

Best regards,
Edward L. Haletky
VMware Communities User Moderator, VMware vExpert 2009
====
Author of the book 'VMWare ESX Server in the Enterprise: Planning and Securing Virtualization Servers', Copyright 2008 Pearson Education.
Blue Gears and SearchVMware Pro Blogs -- Top Virtualization Security Links -- Virtualization Security Round Table Podcast

[malaysiavm]

I am absolutely agreed with you, as I had met numbers of engineer who had been certified as VCP, MCSE or MCP, and they do not deliver the quality as the certification they had always. Part of the hiring process, certification will be advantages, but will not be a MUST for me.

:smileygrin:

Craig

vExpert 2009

Malaysia VMware Communities -

[hiroy]

Hi,

Certified Virtualization Expert on VMware course.

Anyone have an opinion on whether this course that is offered is it beneficial in any way? Is it a waste of money?

Thanks in advance for any worthy input on this course...

[BMORick]

I took this course a month ago. I thought it was really well put together and presented. The labs are all performed on REAL live servers - not simulated. Personally, I found this course more valuable than the VMware courses I have taken. The bootcamp methodology really rams alot of information into you. The instructor equated it to drinking from a firehose..

I liked it and would recommend it.. it touches other virtual technologies as well (albeit minimal) such as Hyper-V and Citrix.

You may get a different certification (if you choose the write the exam) - but the knowledge gained is great.

My major problem is that this course will give you more than enough info to complete a VCP as well - but you have to take the VMWare branded courses to actually get your VCP.. major scam..

[notCVE]

Here's what I just faced while writing the CVE cert exam.

Registered in the Ultimate Bootcamp and at the end of the week registered to write the CVE.

Minutes into writing the exam problems started, everyone writing was kicked out of the terminal sessions, once we were back in we discovered the clock had not stopped ticking. We all lost prescious minutes off our exam. A while later, it happened again. We had the training centre contact the exam host (vmware) to identify the issue. We were all back in, now we had lost approx 15 minutes off the exam due to system instability. THis did not stop there, it happened a grand total of 10 times to myself, 12 to a few others writing. I lost a good 30 to 35 minutes. At one point, I was at question 36, got kicked out, finally got back in to find myself sitting back at question 16 with the clock still ticking away. In frustration and time constraints I had to answer questions as quickly as possible.

Come the end of the exam and time to end it, you clicked on exit exam, confirmed and was presented with a message telling us that the exam was "REJECTED" from the host. No one was able to successfully submit. We sat through 2 hours of this to be told at the end that the results were not submitted to the server.

We received an explanation from the test centre that one of the Vlan cards had died and would not come back up. Was one of the biggest features during the week that in cases like this, you can vMotion the host to a different LUN without losing so much as a PING. Why could this happen, and why could the people supporting the product not handle the issue before it bacame a huge problem.

My question about the CVE cert: "How valid and recognized is this cert"?

Not even the vendor was able to prevent a problem that should have been handled quite easily and efficiently.

[ryanmarsee]

We spent thousands on this training to only find out it is not VMware certified training. Do not bother with this training. This training was not vendor agnostic. The training was biased and simply acknowledged that other virtualization technologies existed but spent no time on them. If your goal is to get certified take the VMware course.

[Ripley8]

An independent training certification, good or bad? Hmmmm, let's have a think about this.







On the one hand VMWare get criticism for making the exam course dependant, you have to do the course to get the VCP (and the new qualifications for design and architecture).









On the other hand you can go for the CVE track and, um, do the course and take the exam. Can yo take the CVE exam without doing the course? If not then there's no difference.



VMWare make VCP status a prerequisite for certain partnership states, as well as VSP status. CVE will have zero value when attempting to build a commercial relationship with VMWare, so there's little value there. If all you want is a VMWare 'expert' then there are several routes to simply getting 'the knowledge', often without doing any courses or taking any exams (I've met these people, I know).









In the end one has to make the assumption that the vendor knows what they are doing and builds courses that reflect a certain knowledge set. An independent certification may achieve the same end, but how does a prospective client know? and what of their relationship with the vendor? Certainly a company could get enough official VCPsto satisfy partner requirements and then choose to send staff on CVE courses, but to what end?









Personally I'm a big fan of good training that is relevant to the delegate's requirements, but we can't tailor training for everyone, so we have to compromise. Writing training material for current and new technologies is an onerous task, any non-vendor associated company will be hard pressed to offer the depth of content and response to new features that the software vendor can. I will balance that by saying I teach vendor-legal courses for companies using their official courseware that is sometimes deplorable. Having been training IT for thirty years I can think of only one company that put the right effort into training, and that was Novell . VMWare'scourseware has improved inestimably over the last year or so and has started to catch up with the explosion in demand and to cover the expanding curriculum requirements for all the new products. From what I've heard for the future this improvement will only get beter</span> (certainly the internal Train The Trainer sessions have improved greatly since I did my first one).

In the final analysis a training requirement has to be met by the most cost effective solution and the downturn in pricing for official VCP training means that more and more people can afford it, and I believe that the vendor offering would be the smartest move (and yes, I know, I'm a VCI, I would say that). I just can't see how the same levels of quality control and industry acceptance can be matched by a 'grey' supplier.

[Texiwill]

Hello,

In the previous post by notCVE it was mentioned that the exam provider was VMware. Actually it is NOT VMware. CVE has no relationship with VMware.

Best regards,
Edward L. Haletky VMware Communities User Moderator, VMware vExpert 2009

Now Available: 'VMware vSphere(TM) and Virtual Infrastructure Security'[/url]

Also available 'VMWare ESX Server in the Enterprise'[/url]

Blogging: The Virtualization Practice[/url]|Blue Gears[/url]|TechTarget[/url]|Network World[/url]

Podcast: Virtualization Security Round Table Podcast[/url]|Twitter: Texiwll[/url]

[JDLangdon]

On the other hand you can go for the CVE track and, um, do the course and take the exam. Can yo take the CVE exam without doing the course? If not then there's no difference.

The last time I inquired into taking the CVE exam I was told that the exam was included in the cost of the training session and that it was taken on the last day of class, In order words, you HAD to attend (pay for) the training session in order to write the exam.

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Jason D. Langdon

[georgefranklin]

Yes don't think the CVE has a place until it is seperated from the offical VMware Training program.

[JDLangdon]

I don't think the CVE has a place period. From what I've heard, the questiosn on the CVE exam is 99% VMware specific. Passing this exam might qualify someone as a Certified VMware Professional but in no means will it qualify someone as an expert in anything.

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Jason D. Langdon

[admin]

Hi friends i new to this forum

[nancy31]

I agree with JDLangdon that the questiosn on the CVE exam is 99% VMware specific. That is why passing the exam will make you a Certified VMware Professional