I've either been far too polite or far too subtle.
one can never be too polite. and even if one thought they were, that would not excuse being rude.
I get annoyed when my time is wasted by a big
download that does very little. If this appliace was
any good, I would be using it - yes, really!
we get it. you have an opinion. but, given the current capability of hercules, what would you \*expect* this virtual appliance to do?
I'm just trying to save other people's time. If you
read my comments and still download this appliance
then you deserve to have your time wasted!
well, if you'd rather not spend the time figuring out how to compile it or how to configure it just to have a look, the download may be the way to go.
who wastes their time with downloads these days? hit a button and walk away--it may take a few tries on a slow link, but seeing as how you're on the back nine, it's not really a waste of time. and if you have a broadband connection, you might have just enough time to get a cup of joe.
for the record, i didn't download the appliance, but I do run Hercules \*on* a VM.
Glad you can see the point, shame you need to explain
the obvious to others, running a guest \*under* a host
is commonly used terminology in vmware cirlces as
well as elsewhere!!! Duh!
People familiar with the OSI model know that software runs \*on* hardware, that, currently, virtualization is software, and that anything taking advantage of this software \*layer* would be on top of it.
non-dinosaurs??? Now that's embarassing, even for a
first post.
do you want to explain this one? i'm not embarrassed. are you? it may have been my first post on this forum, but it's not my first post, eh?
OS/370 (Hercules)? Are you saying Hercules=OS/370?
Presumably you mean: running OS/370 or Linux/390 or
z/OS or any other 360/370/390 based operating system
under Hercules, under vmware under Xp or Linux (if
this confuses you, maybe this appliance ain't for
you!).
no, i was just making a parallelism that emulated hardware begets emulated software and I put Hercules in parentheses to point out that which is doing the emulatin'[/i]
i'm not confused. but if you think this appliance isn't worth anyone's time, what is the point of that parenthetical statement?
>The one advantage I do see in doing so, however,
comes from the manageability aspect. Specifically, if
you're already invested in a VMWare infrastructure,
it makes more sense to run Hercules in a VM so you
can shuffle all of your virtual systems around
consistently.
Does it? You find it tough managing and moving
folders around?
yes, it does. and, no, i don't find it tough managing and moving folders around. i just like a consistent way of doing so and so do my tools.
>Further, in the case of managed resource
utilization, it would be imperative to run Hercules
under a VM.
What? Which O/S are you referring to?
it doesn't matter. managed resource utilization from a VM infrastructure perspective reflects the ability to manage the resources any guest os gets to use.
Or do you still think OS/370 = Hercules?
now, exactly how would my thinking have changed from the previous paragraph? i wrote them at the same time.
that's not what i think.
and based on the fact that you presumed otherwise, you never thought i did either.
Read my previous post about IBM's VM/ESA (etc) O/S.
Tried running multiple Hercules instances?
why would a mainframe-based virtual infrastructure be of \*any* significance on this site?
@bahae (another first time caller)
>Agree with the above.
Really? You tried Hercules on its own without
dowloading a massive 600MB shell?
- which doesn't even have vm tools installed!!!!!!! A
lot of work clearly went into this appliance!
that's just disk space. so what. it may not be an important appliance to many, but for some there may be a benefit. if it raises interest in either the vm community or the hercules community, that would be a good thing.
>Also, when you run multiple hercules each within
their own virtual enviroment, you get:
>1. The advantage of VMOTION. i.e being able to move
instances across machines at RUN time
I wonder how many people will do that! perhaps you
and cseeup!!!!
What about licensing concerns? Oh you don't have any,
so you are using Linux/390 with VMotion.
Yeah right.
lack of interest in a capability diminishes not any advantage it may bring. c'mon, we're geeks, wouldn't it be fun to move a mainframe across the pond while it's running without loosing a single transaction?
>2. A hercules instance with a faulty piece of code
could end up consuming excessive resources and
>impact other apps in the same environment. VERY
HARMFUL. with a virtualised hercules instance
>resource consumption is limited.
Of course, happens to me all the time.....
this particular bit of sarcasm went unnoticed by most. don't you think?
don't you see \*any* payoff in being wary about running other people's code on your bare metal?
@deltan
Weve been using this to run Linux 390 with some DB
apps we ported over. Works very nice.
>Thank you and keep up the good work
Why not run your app directly on Linux/Hercules
without vmware? Clearly as a Linux/390 user you have
Linux skills so you can do the 5 minute Hercules
install...
Maybe you enjoyed the 600MB download? I just don't
get it!!!!
we're trying to get the light bulb to turn on...
The guys on the mainframe forums like this appliance
so much they have pretty well ignored it and created
their own appliance with Damn Small Linux, Hercules
and MVS-Turnkey.
Note the lack of vmware in there!
then it's not an appliance, now is it?
This vmware appliance is a joke!
no one is laughing. making implicit accusations and not puting an effort into understanding others' viewpoints doesn't exactly promote a witty atmosphere.
A summary of what's wrong with this appliance:-
1) It's ridiculously big, 606 MB, essentially an
entire linux + the relatively small Hercules code.
2) It doesn't (even) have vmware tools
3) It has no Hercules guests installed (such as the
turnkey-mvs)
4) It's an attempt at a solution looking for a
problem? What problem does it solve? Please answer
without the aid of first time posters!!!!
5) Even if it were a reasonable size, 99% of the
time, the better way to install Hercules is directly
onto the base operating system - Xp or linux.
i agree with all of this. i'm just saying that these shortcomings aren't going to be relevant for everyone.
I deeply resent having to download 600MB to see
something that I could have downloaded myslef in much
less time and learned far more in setting it up (even
though that is quick).
Downloading this appliance give you practically
nothing and certainly saves you zero time!
i really do have to ask again, "what would you \*expect* this virtual appliance to do?"
Finally, if you are in that 1% of people who know
what they are talking
about in vmware and Hercules terms, and you really
wanted to try running
Hercules this way, then here is the real killer, wait
for it, cos even cseesup
is gonna understand this one:
again, i'm not confused.
If you have vmware, then its odds on you have either
a linux or an xp
guest so why the hell would you download another 606
MB guest and
then install vmware tools?!!!!
downloading this or not, running a vm implies running a guest os. sure it can be smaller, but at twenty-five cents per GB of disk, um, what's the problem?
Why wouldnt you spend
5 minutes to
install Hercules on one you already have!!!!!!!
Or even on a clone!
this is a vm site. individually we see unique advantages to running and managing systems in virtual spaces. what you see as taking 5 minutes, appears to many as an os provisioning step followed by an unknown. the download is a measurable and fixed cost. and if you're just looking to get your feet wet, this is a no-brainer.
Game over? Or did I miss something!
everything.
Hal
Bruce
