virtualized amd-v not supported on this platform - windows 11 sept 2023 update breaks workstation?

[kasper]

Host AMD 7735HS with Windows 11 22h2 and VMWare workstation 17.02.

Applied Sept windows 11 cumulative update.   Have some guests where i visualize the CPU (Windows 7 up to 11 guests).

Now I get 'virtualized AMD-V/RVI not supported.....'.

Is this now broken?   Is there a workaround?

Thank you

[kasper]

It was not the monthly update that broke software virtualization.    I switch the host OS time to time.   When I switched to Windows 11 22h2 and applied the latest AMD updates for the 7735HS I get this.   Unacceptable.   How is it when you do software virtualization VMWare workstation cannot handle this environment?   Geez, its *software virtualization*!

[Technogeezer]

Are you running Workstation with Hyper-V as the upper level monitor, or the VMware hypervisor as CPL0?

Could the AMD updates have disabled or changed a setting in firmware that broke the hypervisor monitor (such as turning off virtualation features).

Theres really no such thing as “software virtualization” IMO unless you are running a CPU chip emulator. Everything else is a cooperation between hardware and the virtualization software - virtual machine code normally runs on the CPU until the hardware traps back to the monitor when the VM needs to execute privileged functions. And the hardware contains instructions that help out those monitors do their job more quickly. 

[kasper]

I am certain I have removed hyper-v.   I am certain I have removed the silly Windows Defender stuff using this:

reg add "HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\WdBoot" /v "Start" /t REG_DWORD /d "4" /f
reg add "HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\WdFilter" /v "Start" /t REG_DWORD /d "4" /f
reg add "HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\WdNisDrv" /v "Start" /t REG_DWORD /d "4" /f
reg add "HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\WdNisSvc" /v "Start" /t REG_DWORD /d "4" /f
reg add "HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\WinDefend" /v "Start" /t REG_DWORD /d "4" /f

I have also applied registry and policy settings to disable Defender Device Guard.

I have narrowed down the issue to Windows 11 2022H2 and the AMD update:

https://www.amd.com/en/support/apu/amd-ryzen-processors/amd-ryzen-7-processors-radeon-graphics/amd-r...

Not sure what you mean by 'no such thing as software virtualization'.  My understanding is the setting:

'virtualize intel vt-x/ept or amd-v/rvi' is a software workaround for when the CPU doesnt have hardware virtualization or for when you are nesting virtual systems.   So to me that would indicate software virtualization.

[Technogeezer]

I’ll grant that there is a software assist needed to make those functions work in nested configurations. My comments were a bit too generalized. 

[kasper]

No worries.   My concern is that Microsoft is completely taking over virtualization on the client side.   Part of it is a move to squeeze other players out of the this space.   Part of it is that there OS is full of security holes and this is one way for a quick fix.   And part of it is they made promises to 3rd parties and have to keep contracts in tact.

Hyper-V on a host client is way behind and does not compare to VMWare workstation on so many levels.

Very sad.

[Technogeezer]

It does seem that Microsoft is making it more difficult for third party hypervisors. I’m beginning to think that the biggest cause of performance issues with Workstation is Microsoft’s foot-dragging. I think the Workstation issues reported here when using Hyper-V as the hypervisor on Alder Lake CPUs is that Microsoft isn’t opening up things in Hyper+V APIs that would let Workstation run better.

Theres a similar effort to take over the hypervisor space over at Apple, but the big issue there is with virtualizing macOS on Apple Silicon. Apple will let you do it, but only with another API set that doesn’t have the functionality of the API set that Parallels and VMware use for Windows and Linux. 

[kasper · Accepted solution]

I disabled HyperV services.    I set 'device guard' off in GPO.   I removed Windows Defender.   But when I did MSINFO32 virutalized-based security was still running and I could not use software virtualization / nesting.   I probably did several other things but at this point in time going to the windows host settings / security and disabling memory core isolation seems to have done the trick.   I can now nest.

[wila]

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@Technogeezer wrote:

Theres a similar effort to take over the hypervisor space over at Apple, but the big issue there is with virtualizing macOS on Apple Silicon. Apple will let you do it, but only with another API set that doesn’t have the functionality of the API set that Parallels and VMware use for Windows and Linux. 

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Well that and the lack of nested virtualization down there too. It's really sad to see both of the VMware desktop products to loose mature features & performance by adding support for the host OS embedded hypervisors. Not only that, but we gained a whole new array of bugs too. Makes me so sad...
On top of all that we now have required encryption for being able to run Windows 11 guest OS's which adds their own kind of trouble and portability issues.
It's not even "one step forward & two steps back", but feeling more like 5 steps back and most of that isn't even in VMware's control. (Not that I can't make a list of things to fix that they do control, but ...)

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Wil