Slow initialization of VMs on Ryzen Threadripper 3960X

[gonace]

Hi

I've just moved from an Intel i7-6700K to an AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3960X and have noticed that the initial startup process is extremely slow (5-10min) once it's started everything works fine and a reboot is as quick as before.

The same slow initialization happens when the VM is turned off or suspended, it takes 5-10min (extremely random) for the VM to get to the "Windows 10"-load screen.

Anyone having the same or similar issues or know a reason for this?

I'm running VMWare Workstation 15.5.1 and have attached the log.

2019-11-29T09:29:56.345+01:00| vmx| I125: vmm64-vcpus:   8

2019-11-29T09:36:35.583+01:00| vmx| I125: KHZEstimate 3792875

Best Regards,

Erik

[Solus_VM]

DominikWeglarz​ I can confirm exactly that what gonace said. I created most of my virtual machines with an Intel Core i7-8700k host CPU in the past and they behave exactly like the ones I created on my AMD workstation. With the Intel CPU I never had these problems back then.

I've found that Linux VMs are not affected by the problem or if they are, then significantly less than Windows VMs. My Debian VMs boot within a few seconds - no matter how many CPUs I assign. Either there is an issue with Windows as a guest OS (on Windows host systems with the Threadripper CPU) or it's because Linux requires less resources during the boot process, I don't know.

[DominikWeglarz]

Solus_VM  gonace​

Great thanks !

What about reverse direction - if you created VMs on Ryzen - would it run without issue on Intel ?

[Solus_VM]

I switched from Intel to AMD and I don't have an Intel CPU anymore. Therefore I can't test this, unfortunately. But since the exact same virtual machines start very quickly when using VMware Workstation on Linux (with the same AMD CPU and no changes to the hardware in general), this problem only exists on Windows host systems and it's not just related to VMware Workstation, because it also occurs with Virtual Box. I'm quite sure that all of my virtual machines would start without any problems when using an Intel CPU - no matter where the VMs were created. Based on my tests I think that it's an issue with Windows as the host OS in conjunction with a type 2 hypervisor.

[gonace]

I've tried running a Virtual Machine (Windows Server 2019) that was created on my Workstation (AMD Threadripper 3960X) on my Lenovo laptop (Intel i7) and running it on that machine works just fine.

[gonace]

An update!

This week is my first week back from my holiday, I tried starting some virtual machines today, see and behold, they started as quick as when I was on an Intel platform. Since I use my computer at home for gaming and work I have no idea of what might have fixed the issue.

I've been updating windows during my vacation so I'm guessing one of the updates installed have resolved the issue for me.

Can anyone else please updating Windows 10 and see if it works fine for you guys as well?

King regards

[Tornaci]

Hi gonace,

I myself actually did find that copying or moving Windows VM's from an Intel system (where they were created) to an AMD system does causes issues. VM's with GNU/Linux didn't seem to care that much and gave me no problem. Installing them freshly solved this isseu for me. When I read your OG post, I found that it didn't sound too unfamiliar. I had a couple of clients with familiar stories. The causes for the problems where not all the same. Here are some I listed bellow which may also be the cause of your probem.

Probable causes:

A pirated copy of Windows.

The users configuration for windows and/or BIOS/ UEFI.

Bad drivers and updates.

Keeping your system ON for too long and using too much system reasources at once.

Having too much programs start at the startup of the system.

These are just some that came to my mind. There are probable some I forgot or haven't seen yet.

Feel free to list those you guys know of. I'm all ear to know probable causes for IT problems. Hopefully to prevent them form happening or fix them as efficiently as possible.

I'm happy to hear your problem was solved with updates.

Kind regards,

Tornaci

[Solus_VM]

gonace​ Thanks for your update. I just tested it again and unfortunately the problem still exists in my case I have installed all available Windows 10 updates. In general I install updates every day. I'm using Windows 10 version 2004 with build number 19041.450, which build number do you have?

Tornaci The VMs you can see in my video under https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hySuuunsbo are freshly created VMs on my AMD system. In my case this problem exists with both old and new VMs. My Windows 10 is legally purchased and activated and I turn off my computer every day. I have even deactivated hibernation in Windows 10, so I really turn off the computer completely. The automatic startup of programs contains only 3 small programs in my case, so this is not a problem.

[JonasHagh65]

Hello

I also have problems with my system. It is a GigaByte Designer with an AMD 3960x and 256GB ram 7 TB nvme sdd disk that I installed Windows 10 Pro 2004 (19041-450) no Hyper-V activated on.

I am currently running Vmware Workstation Pro 15.5.2 build 15785246

If I choose to create a new VM for Ubuntu 20.04 Lts with 8 cpu and 32 GB ram, it works perfectly!

If I choose to create a new VM with Windows 10 Pro 2004 with 8 cpu and 32 GB of ram, it will not work as well

the installation is tough and the windows start slowly and the machine feels slow

Chose to test Vmware Vorskstation Pro 20H2 on the same computer with the same vm

Ubuntu no problem!

Windows pure disaster! took forever for it to get started!

[JonasHagh65]

Hello

This may be a bit off topic, but I tried the following on my computer (as I described in my previous post)

I am running Vmware Workstation Pro 15.5.2

I made a VM ESXi 7.0 machine with 64 GB RAM and 16 CPUs installed Windows 10 Pro 2004 (32GB RAM 16 CPUs) on that ESXi machine.

It started in about 20 sec

I made a Windows 10 Pro 2004 (32GB RAM 16 CPUs) in Vmware Workstaion Pro

It started in about 30 sec

All machines worked against the same disk

I'm wondering if Vmware is trying to directly translate some of Microsoft's APIs and let them pass the VM Kernel, just because it's most common to run Vmware Workstation on a Windows host

/Jonas Hagh

[Solus_VM]

I've upgraded to VMware Workstation 16 today and, as expected, the problem persists.

And when I create a virtual machine, check "Virtualize Intel VT-x/EPT or AMD-V/RVI" in the processor settings, install ESXi or Proxmox and then set up Windows VMs on top of it (nested virtualization), those Windows VMs inside the ESXi- or Proxmox-VM start up quickly, because the initialization doesn't take place under Windows, but under ESXi or Proxmox. This "host VM" is already initialized. So I'll still quite sure that it's a Windows related problem. Unfortunately, due to lack of time, I haven't been able to report about it in the Microsoft forum yet.

OT: I think there is a visual bug in VMware Workstation 16. When icons are grayed out (for example, the snapshot restore button), they look weird (not like under version 15). Also, the logo in the window title is cut off when the VMware Workstation window is maximized and the title isn't vertically centered. When I make the window smaller, the buttons in the upper right corner (minimize, maximize, close) look strange too. I think this isn't intentional, maybe there will be an update soon...

[JonasHagh65]

Hello

I have noticed that if you use nvme disks (these are the type of disks used by ESXi 7.0) instead of SCSI disks, the performance increases by about 15% for a normal Windows installation.

You get lower CPU load on your HOST

VMwareWorksttion 16 seems to work better with its own VM, can not say anything about how it works with Hyer-V, as I do not use it

It is fast at allocating memory and reading and writinting from disk which is the most important thing !, Did not test the new graphics features but is curious about them ...

Whether AMD or INTEL pulls the longest straw here probably depends a lot on Microsoft and those who write drivers for the various platforms!

/Jonas Hagh

[Fischer1]

How can this still be a problem? I just got my Threadripper 3960x  and am having the same issues! It's been a year since the original post.  As an IT instructor my students have never had a problem with nested virtualization running Windows 10 Host with VMWare workstation and as a "guest" Server 2019 as a Hyper-V host to multiple Windows server 2016 guests. 

At this point, I can't even run Server 2019 reasonably on VMWare Workstation Pro.

Is there an update or patch?

[Claude1]

I've also a ThreadRipper 3975WX - 256Gb RAM and looks like Vmware workstation does not use this huge resource.
When you clone a VM or when you delete snapshot it takes hours....
Is it normal?