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Al_Koch
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Confusion about Threadripper, Workstation Pro and Windows 10

Hello,

My workload has grown to the point where I need to simultaneously run 7 - 8 VMs. Some run Windows 7 & 10 and others run Ubuntu. Each VM runs one or two of: MS Office, a browser, database server, Java Server, Eclipse, VS Studio, VS Code and video editing & rendering. My current system (i7-4770 Quad Core, 32GB)  is maxed out at 4 cores. Ideally, I'd like to upgrade to a system running the Threadripper 3950X with 16 cores with Workstation running on Win 10. I have several questions:

1) Will Workstation Pro on Win 10 even run on the Threadripper 3950X or higher models? I am confused because on the one hand https://www.vmware.com/resources/compatibility/search.php?deviceCategory=cpu doesn't show ANY Threadripper CPUs suggesting there is no support but https://communities.vmware.com/thread/622377?start=30&tstart=0 has a long thread about the 3960X running but taking a long time to boot.

2) Does this CPU seem appropriate for this workload? I'm thinking 2 cores for each VM with possibly 4 cores for the VM running the video software. I realize that this # of cores exceeds 16 (plus Windows needs some as well!) so this would require some swapping. It's a "worst" case to need all 8 VMs - I probably would normally run with 6.

3) Is it possible to make a recommendation for a minimum amount of RAM for these 16 cores?

Thank you.

32 Replies
ender_
Expert
Expert

Unfortunately I'm still waiting for the CPU – the shop said they're expecting a shipment either on Friday or Monday, then it'll take a few more days to dispatch them.

ender_
Expert
Expert

Got the CPU today, my Windows 10 and 8.1 VMs boot practically instantly. Windows 7 took a bit longer the first time, but after a reboot it's booting as fast as it used to (it detected a new CPU on the first boot and said it installed a driver for it).

My Windows 95 VM doesn't start (While initializing device IOS: Windows Protection Error), but that seems to be the only one with a problem (and it's a known problem with Win95 on fast CPUs).

Al_Koch
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Hi ender_,

I really appreciate you took the time to come back and let me know how things are running. That's great news that Win 10 (and even 😎 boot up so quickly.

Please let me know what type of processor cooling you are using. You built the system yourself, right? I'd be very interested in whatever else you might want to share about what's "in the box".

Thanks again.

 

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ender_
Expert
Expert

Yes, I built the system myself (actually, I just did an upgrade – haven't bought a full system since '99).

For cooling my own build I use Noctua NH-U14S - beware, this cooler is huge, and won't fit every chassis. For a client's build 2 weeks ago (for which I ironically got 5900X immediately, but was more expensive) I used Be Quiet Shadow Rock (also pretty large, but smaller than NH-U14S). As for anything else in the box, I kept my old GTX1070 because I don't game enough to warrant a replacement, and I added a 1.92TB Micron NVMe SSD to which I moved my OS (from 1TB Crucial M550, which I'll now use only for hosting VMs). The motherboard I have is Asus Pro WS X570-ACE (note: you have to get the BIOS updated before you can install 5xxx Ryzens) and 64GB ECC RAM (2x 32GB PC3200).

Al_Koch
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Hi ender_,

Thanks for the details. If you don't mind sharing, I'm curious why you skipped over the Be Quiet Shadow Rock (used with your client) and chose the Noctua NH-U14S. In studying your selections I discovered https://noctua.at/en/nh-u14s/cpucomp#manuf_0_socket_8302_cpu_13415 where the cooler isn't shown as compatible with the Ryzen 5900X. You've got it working so obviously the URL is "wrong". Any idea why Noctua's website is NOT listing this?

Also, the ECC Ram must have increased the build cost quite a bit. Since you weren't building for use as a server (as I understand it) what motivated the ECC?

As always, your feedback is really appreciated and is very helpful as I am spec-ing out the system.

 

 

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ender_
Expert
Expert

When ordering for myself, I almost always order from foreign webstores, since they're typically cheaper than ordering locally (even if I buy from local distributors directly through the company I work for). The store where I ordered motherboard, RAM and SSD had NH-U14S available, and since it's mechanically compatible with the AM4 socket I went with that (I never even thought to look at CPU compatibility list, since I knew that NH-U14S would be overkill for my use anyway - it mainly means that the computer stays quiet unless I really load the CPU; the site probably isn't listing 5900X because it's so new).

For my client I went with Be Quiet simply because it was the cheapest that was available immediately, mechanically compatible and with enough headroom that it wouldn't be running at full speed (it was also way more annoying to install than Noctua, since it's completely unbalanced).

ECC RAM wasn't really that much more expensive – I paid 276€ for 2x 32GB ECC (138€ per module), cheapest non-ECC 32GB PC3200 module I can find right now is 109€, so it'd be about 60€ cheaper overall. I went with ECC because I had some bad experience with my i7 machine years ago (which is why I went with Xeon E5 and RDIMM for my previous build).

Al_Koch
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Hi ender_,

Thanks for the additional details. The info is quite helpful. My next step is to locate a custom systems builder.

Do you have any way I can contact you directly? Since we've moved away from discussing VMware Workstation and more towards hardware specs I suspect the forum moderator may terminate our conversation /thread.

Hope you had/have a nice holiday.

 

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ender_
Expert
Expert

Private messages ✉️ should work.

Adam42R
Contributor
Contributor

To all, this discussion has been immensely valuable to me as I have some similar use cases that fit somewhere between you all. I am curious ender_ if you had a chance to try running WSL 2 on one of the virtualized Windows 10 VMs and if so, any hiccups?  

I am going back to building a desktop for the first time in 20+ years and have a varied set of use cases for VMs, including running some V-in-V scenarios. I was fully planning to go Intel until I started looking into performance reviews and had settled on going Ryzen 5900X... until the beginning of this thread. The latest information looks promising again so would greatly appreciate what you have experienced with these chips

Specific interest is running on a Windows 10 (20H1/2004 build or newer) Host running VMware Workstation 2016 Pro/Player with: 

  • a guest VM running Windows 10 running WSL 2 (either a Win store Kali/Ubuntu*, or side loaded self-built RHEL/CentOS)

and/or

  • a guest VM running Windows 10 running Hyper-V (tertiary guest can be Linux/Win but normally my use case is RHEL/CentOS)

 

* the Win store offering of Kali/Ubuntu is plenty of proof of what I need

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ender_
Expert
Expert

I never tried WSL2 before, but install inside VM only took a few minutes, so here it is:

ender__1-1611516306752.png

 

Adam42R
Contributor
Contributor

Wow, thanks ender_ 

Curious, did you install the Ubuntu instance before or after you set the default WSL version?  E.g. if you run wsl -l -v on the guest, does it show that Ubuntu is version 1 or 2?  

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ender_
Expert
Expert

I installed Ubuntu after setting the WSL version.

C:\Windows\system32>wsl -l -v
  NAME            STATE           VERSION
* Ubuntu-20.04    Running         2
Adam42R
Contributor
Contributor

That's great, thanks for checking that out and posting the screen shots ender_.

Doubling down on my earlier comment about the value of this dialog, this is really a treasure trove of information for someone buying/building at the moment so huge thanks all.

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