Best Linux for Host? ... and ESX vs. Workstation

[vmQuint]

I've been running VM Workstation since 1999.  I just built a physical machine for my home lab that I want to run only VMs on.  I have two questions.

What is the best linux host for VM Workstation 8?

I went to the compatitibility guide at:

http://partnerweb.vmware.com/comp_guide2/search.php?deviceCategory=software&testConfig=17

and put in:

Workstation

8.0

all

all

Linux

desktop

64

and it comes up with only Mandriva and SUSE.  This is bizarre.  No Red Hat?  No Ubuntu?  No Debian?  Mandriva is a French company financed by the Russians which makes me a little queasy, and SUSE is not free.  it makes me wonder if that page is current.

Which leads to my next question. ... Isn't there some hypervisor product that doesn't even need a host OS?  Is that ESX?  Can I get all the Workstation features (snapshots, etc.) with this hypervisor product? ... and of course, I can't spend $2000 for a home lab.   I seem to recall that one of these products is free, ... was it ESXi?  Can anyone explain the differences between Workstation and ESX in a few sentences.  But if the ESX version I need is $2000, then nevermind.

I guess ideally I'd like to install Workstation as a hypervisor (no host OS).  Is there anyway to acheive this?  What do you suggest?

[WoodyZ]

Instead of selecting "desktop" select "All' and you'll see many more!

ESXi is a free Type 1 Hypervisor (bare metal) and VMware Workstation is a Type 2 Hypervisor (Hosted on Supported OSes).  ESXi is free with limitations and VMware Workstation is ~$200 USD however will run on more common Desktop systems then ESXi will and ESXi requires more specialized hardware.  There is plenty of information at VMware's Web Site on both of theses products.

[Sreejesh_D]

and it comes up with only Mandriva and SUSE.  This is bizarre.  No Red Hat?  No Ubuntu?  No Debian?

Redhat, Ubuntu and Debian are supported as Host Operating system for WS 8.0. Please refer the compatibility guide.

http://partnerweb.vmware.com/comp_guide2/pdf/VMware_HOS_Compatibility_Guide.pdf

Which leads to my next question. ... Isn't there some hypervisor product that doesn't even need a host OS? Is that ESX?

Yes, ESX or ESXi can be used for this. Both are Hypervisors which will give far better performance than a WS.  Both ESX and ESXi are licensed products.

Can I get all the Workstation features (snapshots, etc.) with this hypervisor product?

Yes, almost all features of WS are available in ESX/ESXi.  In fact you will get more features and better performance than WS.

I seem to recall that one of these products is free, ... was it ESXi? 

Yes, it was.  The free version of ESX was known as  "VMware ESXi Single Server" or "free ESXi". Now its renamed to  "VMware vSphere Hypervisor".

Find more details on Hypervisor here http://www.vmware.com/products/vsphere-hypervisor/faq.html.

[vmQuint]

Hmmm.  My machines are i5 and i7.  The compatibility guide seems to say they are not supported for vSphere Hypervisor (ESXi).

But does ESXi do snapshots anyway?  I can't even find a clear answer on that, really.  If ESXi does everything that Workstation does, wouldn't that erode sales of Workstation? ... or is that fine, because of the route to the mega $$ datacenter products from ESXi?

[WoodyZ]

quint wrote: But does ESXi do snapshots anyway?  I can't even find a clear answer on that, really.

VMware maintains quite a bit of documentation of its various products at its Web Site and can be gotten to simply by selecting: Support & Downloads > Documentation

Have a look at: Using Snapshots To Manage Virtual Machines

[vmQuint]

Well, ... yeah, they have a lot of documentation, but it's just a huge quagmire with 5000 products and versions all over the place, cluttered up with marketing BS.  Even with that link you sent I still don't know if the free version has snapshots.  What's the vSphere client and vSphere web client?  Are those part of the free version?

I just wanted to know if ESXi, the free download, vSphere Hypervisor, does snapshots.

I guess it doesn't matter anyway, since it appears that Compatibility Guide says it doesn't run on i5 or i7 processors?  ... which is weird.

[0WayneH0]

Interesting thread; I was actually looking at this about 2 weeks ago since I just built myself a new machine for running VMs. I was considering the hypervisor route, but do not know much about it, despite also using virtualization for a long time (8 years). I got to that compatibility web page and didn't know where to start or what I was looking at. I guess rather than try to work through it I reverted to what I knew, but I am still partially interested in what might be possible using the Hypervisor versus Workstation.

My dream was to have this new single machine be the central hub, running VMs that could be accessed from other computers on my home network, but for now my host OS / file server / VM work horse approach seems OK.

I guess it doesn't matter anyway, since it appears that Compatibility  Guide says it doesn't run on i5 or i7 processors?  ... which is weird.

Doesn't look like it.... That could be where I stopped looking if I now recall.... I'm running an i7-3930K.

[Bernd_Nowak]

I would tend to workstation instead of running a Hypervisor like ESXi. My main reason that I have a PC which is also used for stuff that uses a soundcard, stuff that needs some DX cabable graphic card as well as watch TV/DVD on this PC.

However, for some other stuff I have a second PC which runs some ubuntu servers as VMs on ESXi.

If you really want to run ESXi there's some lists (non vmware) where you can see some non server hardware that runs with ESX(i) and mostly with information what was problematic etc.

[Sreejesh_D]

What's the vSphere client and vSphere web client?

>> vSphere Client is the Management interface for administrating / managing  vSphere Hypervisor. Throgh vSphere Client we can connect to Hypervisor and perform management tasks like creating VMs, Installing GOS, Taking snapshots, etc.

  Are those part of the free version?

>> yes.

I just wanted to know if ESXi, the free download, vSphere Hypervisor, does snapshots.

>> yes, its is.

[WoodyZ]

0WayneH0 wrote: I was considering the hypervisor route, but do not know much about it, despite also using virtualization for a long time (8 years). I got to that compatibility web page and didn't know where to start or what I was looking at. I guess rather than try to work through it I reverted to what I knew, but I am still partially interested in what might be possible using the Hypervisor versus Workstation.

If you've been using VMware Workstation for 8 years then you been using a Hypervisor for 8 years!   A Hypervisor is a Hypervisor regardless of whether it's implemented as a Type 1 (installed on bare metal) or Type 2 (hosted e.g., VMware Workstation).

[0WayneH0]

WoodyZ wrote:

If you've been using VMware Workstation for 8 years then you been using a Hypervisor for 8 years!   A Hypervisor is a Hypervisor regardless of whether it's implemented as a Type 1 (installed on bare metal) or Type 2 (hosted e.g., VMware Workstation).

OK, then after 8 years I am still learning the lingo; never heard of the term "Hypervisor" until about the last few weeks tbh. Haven't been using Workstation for 8 years, but other products, in chronlogical order.... MS Virtual PC(?) 2004, MS Virtual Server, Windows Virtual PC, Virtual Box and now, finally a fan of Workstation. I see though the term "hypervisor" has been around longer than I have, just.

[vmQuint]

Bernd wrote:

I would tend to workstation  instead of running a Hypervisor like ESXi. My main reason that I have a  PC which is also used for stuff that uses a soundcard, stuff that needs  some DX cabable graphic card as well as watch TV/DVD on this PC.

However, for some other stuff I have a second PC which runs some ubuntu servers as VMs on ESXi.

If  you really want to run ESXi there's some lists (non vmware) where you  can see some non server hardware that runs with ESX(i) and mostly with  information what was problematic etc.

Interesting.  So vSphere Hypervisor (ESXi) doesn't let you use your sound card and all that???  ... why can't you do those things in a VM?  I currently watch videos in a VM on Workstation 8.  If I went the ESXi route, would I not be able to do that?  ...  Is ESXi like geared towards servers or something (no sound, no video graphics)?  If this is true, you make an extremely good point.

[Bernd_Nowak]

ESX(i) and XEN server are indeed geared towards server. There's also virtual desktops but those are individual desktops geared for business desktops which mostly don't need fency graphics or sound.

For sure VMware View does a fair good job but it's more or less a better RDP session.

Don't know what hypersior solutions like ESX(i), or KVM will be able to offer in a year or two but at the moment I use workstation for anything which involves sound/graphics and different guest OS and use ESX(i) mostly for server OS vms.

[vmQuint]

So, it sounds like running ESXi (vSphere Hypervisor) on a machine instead of vmWare Workstation 8 will mean loss of audio and video abilities. ... Can someone confirm or deny this?

Specifically,

loading ESXi on a 64-bit machine,

running Linux-64 in a VM,

watching training videos (with audio) in that Linux VM.

The video player is usually VLC or mPlayer

The video card is Geforce GTS 450

Audio is mobo integrated (sandy bridge)

[vmQuint]

Also, for one of the video codecs I need to run a Linux-32 VM (if it matters).

[WoodyZ]

Try read the Documentation!

Have a look at: Virtual Machine Hardware, Options, and Resources Available to vSphere Virtual Machines

[vmQuint]

Dude!  I did "try to read the documentation".  I already saw that page and it's typical vmWare worthless documentation.  I don't know who it's geared towards, but where does it say anything about video cards? ... PCI? ... VMCI? ... Or vSphere just plain can't handle video cards?  ... no video at all? ... really? ... for that matter, it can't run on an i7? ... again, really?

You keep saying to RTMF, but I can't spend 8 hours digging through the site

"click on this, click on that, go check the blah blah guide which refers to the white paper, which has nothing but marketing BS"

for every vmWare question, and come up with nothing.  I've pretty much learned over the last few years the vmWare site is just plain worthless.  I spend 15 minutes max, then move on to blogs or Wikipedia, or the forum. 

Maybe you have the 5000 products, versions, sub-products, and add-ons memorized, but I don't; and consequently, I never seem to be able to get a straight answer from the vmWare site.  I find the massive billion-page vmWare site pretty friggin worthless and frustrating.  I *do* try to search the documentation first.  I hate asking in the forum, but there aren't many other options.  The Cisco and Microsoft sites are just about as humungus, but I can actually find answers on their sites.  It's almost like the vmWare people don't want to be accountable, and so they get the lawyers to write vague crap.

[continuum · Accepted solution]

ESXi uses a very minimal video-driver - displaying a VM itself is not possible
thats why you need to use a second physical machine to view the VMs

inside the VMs you only get a virtual videocard - so playing latest games inside a VM is not possible

> or that matter, it can't run on an i7? ... again, really?

thats not correct - dont know who told you that ....
ESXi is quite picky when it comes to disk controllers - fake Raids and cheap stuff is not supported - but it will work with normal SATA drives

[vmQuint]

I went to the hardware compatibility guide and there was only one choice for i7 -- an i7-620, but I have an i7-920.

Thank you for your reply.  I think your comment allows me to understand it finally.

Would it be safe to summarize it this way?:

-

ESXi is a hypervisor that runs on bare metal, and doesn't need a host operating system.

ESXi is intended to be run as a server and is not meant to run on a desktop as it cannot display its VMs to the local user like Workstation can.

ESXi has limited video capabilities and does not provide the full video abilities that Workstation can.

ESXi is intended to serve VMs to other machines, and a second physical machine is needed to view the desktops of the VMs on ESXi server.

The machines viewing the desktops of the VMs on the ESXi server use a protocol similar to VNC or RDP to connect and view the VMs.

ESXi is not a good choice for a multimedia use because of its limited video abilities and the remote desktop protocol limitations and speed.

[continuum]

Hi
your summary is correct - though I would not agree to "...and doesn't need a host operating system."
A computer needs an operating system to do anything. In case you install ESXi the operating system is ESXi