VMWare Workstation Boot Manager - help please!!!

[DavidT1983]

Hi All,

Today I downloaded the Cisco CML2 onto my work laptop as I am moving towards the CCNP ENARSI (Advanced Routing) course and I need something more solid that flimsy Packet Tracer and even my own switches & routers.  I have downloaded the image and ISO perfectly fine from Cisco and have the license number.

On the vmware workstation I have imported the image and set it to the minimum requirements defined by Cisco i.e. 4 x CPU's, 8GB RAM.  When I start the virtual machine it (everytime) goes into boot manager.  If I also try to 'start normally' then nothing happens.

I am not a virtualization expert or a wiz in computers so if you could help me out I would be beyond grateful.  To me it doesn't look good that it's showing 'no media' as seen on the pics below.

[DavidT1983]

Yes the virtualization security is enabled in BIOS as this is required for the CML2 - if I remember correctly.  

[btmp]

The problem here is still likely rooted around HyperV and is due to 'Virtualization Based Security' (VBS) which is NOT a BIOS/EFI option! It is a Windows Security option also known as 'Device Guard' or 'Core Isolation' > 'Memory Integrity' that as the name implies uses Virtualization.

Prior to 15.5.6 Workstation could not even run when this was enabled. After Workstation 15.5.6 was released it was supposed to work with Windows 10 Builds beyond 2004 I think it was. However, while enabled on the host, it's my (perhaps incorrect?) understanding that you will not be able use the extra CPU Virtualization for guest VMs as Windows is using it along with some of the core HyperV components to handle this added security and it wont allow nested virtualization with non HyperV products.

At this point rather than trying to disable VBS I'd suggest simply unchecking the 'Processors > Virtualization engine > Virtualize Intel VT-x/EPT or AMD-V/RVI' option and trying it again and KEEP it that way. If it still pops up with a HyperV warning when trying to start the VM do as @RaSystemlord  suggested and disable the 'Windows Hypervisor Platform' feature.

[RaSystemlord]

@btmp 

Thanks! I know next to nothing about this Hyper-V business, since I have never enabled it.

One thing, a discussion today and the solution yesterday, would this fit in as one way of solving this?

"Poor performance after update with message about side channel mitigation"

The error message is obviously not the same, but personally, I never rely on an error message being accurate.

[btmp]

I doubt it. That thread is about the Meltdown and Spectre mitigations. bluefirestorm seems to have already given the best solution for that particular issue. The way he phrases it

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The warning comes when the Windows host has HyperV enabled or WSL enabled as VMware Player/Workstation will use User Level Monitor (ULM)

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might make it seem like a similar issue offhand because it occurs while 'HyperV related things are enabled' but instead seems more related to the way VMWare Workstation handles applying those mitigations to the VMs (instead of HyperV 'getting in the way' of the VM starting as it seems to be doing on this thread) while Hyper-V is active. Admittedly it might still be possible to get better performance by removing the HyperV related stuff so that the Virtual Machine Monitor can handle those in the kernel instead.

I may even be wrong about parts of things considered on both threads -I'm only going off what little I understand and what I've experienced in the past...but at the same time there should be no harm in testing it so long as the person making use of it understands what they're doing beforehand.

[RaSystemlord]

@btmp 

OK, thanks for the clarifications.

[wila]

Hi,

Seems that MS automatically turns on some extra Hyper-V features on the latest Windows versions.

See the answer from @milindng at this post for getting rid of it so you can use nested virtualisation again.
https://communities.vmware.com/t5/VMware-Workstation-Pro/Workstation-16-Pro-Error-quot-Virtualized-I...

--
Wil

[btmp]

The post @wila pointed to does indeed have steps that might resolve the VM failing to start once and for all.

I was trying to avoid suggesting anything that would cause anyone to disable the extra security of VBS. I'm not all that keen on disabling "anything" security related just to make "something else work as desired". So long as the user is OK with losing the extra security and understands that following such steps will do so and they just 'want the VM(s) to work' [with the extra CPU virtualization options in this case] then by all means, that's their right and the steps in that post should help get you there!

[wila]

Hi,

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@btmp wrote:

The post @wila pointed to does indeed have steps that might resolve the VM failing to start once and for all.

I was trying to avoid suggesting anything that would cause anyone to disable the extra security of VBS. I'm not all that keen on disabling "anything" security related just to make "something else work as desired". So long as the user is OK with losing the extra security and understands that following such steps will do so and they just 'want the VM(s) to work' [with the extra CPU virtualization options in this case] then by all means, that's their right and the steps in that post should help get you there!

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It's either the security feature OR nested virtualization. AFAICT you cannot have both at the same time.

See here, the 2nd reply of Mikero:
https://communities.vmware.com/t5/VMware-Workstation-Pro/VMware-Workstation-15-5-6-does-not-support-...

edit: Nevermind... you already said this much in an earlier reply here .. the TS insisted on using virtualisation features for the VM though.

--
Wil

[RaSystemlord]

Thanks for all the expertise in this thread, wila and btmp!

However, the original owner of this thread hasn't answered anything for 3 days and thus it's hard to tell the way or the other. I don't believe we still know: if the computer runs ANY VM or what is the OS of the Cisco thingy ... those may or may not mean something.

As for the matter itself: Every Windows 10 version is different and even regular Updates sometimes change things. It is a very unstable OS in this regard, worse than any other Windows version after the invention of Windows NT. Somehow application creators or VM providers STILL don't take this into account and thus discussions end up being yes/no/maybe and no definite solution, or even less solid instructions by the application creators, are given.

Typically, you would FIRST need to know if Microsoft default environment works. For that, you need to have one. In many case people test with Domain computers or anything else which is not a default environment. Now, it was hinted that Microsoft default environment has changed so that VMware does not work as delivered. That should really be in the best interest of VMware to KNOW, not just guess and try out with fiddling the options of Windows.

Also, if Hyper-V changes the security settings so that VMware does not work - I couldn't care less. I mean, we all know that Windows security is a big mess and if Microsoft puts out weird setups, I would instantly take them off if MY application does not work. Whatever they need for Hyper-V, shouldn't be a concern for VMware - VMware security considerations should be done independently. I mean, IF Microsoft thinks that a particular security option is a MUST, they would have it on by default and not have it as optional with Hyper-V.

I don't currently have a Windows environment for testing, but it is no rocket science task to try out different Windows versions and see what they do BY DEFAULT. All you need is a newer than 10 year old computer and a few SSD-disks to run different options as they should be run - this is what I did in the beginning of this year to figure out why VMware does not work on Linux by testing with different Linux versions (it turned out to be something specific). Typically, official support organizations don't do this - I don't understand what their problem is. Of course, with Windows, it take ages to get the computer ready for any single Windows 10 version and you need MSDN (or whatever its name is now) licensing - in Linux it takes only 1-2 hours of mostly waiting, depending on your Internet speed. If not obvious, this isn't part of Support organization, this is just community discussion - just saying. With PROPER testing, you would also be able to create exact and immediate instructions of what is working and what is not working.

If not obvious, when you know what works in the default environment, ONLY THEN you can start analyzing different scenarios - like the case when Hyper-V is ON or has AT SOME POINT been turned ON or whatever makes a difference. This is much more time-consuming. However, typically what a person needs is to run VMware, if they come here with a question. If Hyper-V works or does not work at the same time, is a secondary matter - for the person asking and even more so for VMware. It all comes to the same question: what does Windows 10 do by default? Getting back to a certain scenario with Windows physical computer is never possible in the generic case (a longish story), and thus you would really need to test in a fresh environment to make sure.

[RaSystemlord]

Well, I did what I suggested.

The case:

- Asus motherboard, i7 processor, about 9-10 old workstation

- fresh Windows 10 Home installation, with latest Updates installed per today

- VMware Player 16.1.2 downloaded from VMware site per today

- Kali Linux 2021.2, 64-bit (Debian based)

There are no problems in running VMware. Obviously, virtualization needs to be enabled in BIOS (which is not a default of BIOS).

The defaults of Windows Features are visible in the attached picture. If you have something else relevant active blocking your use, just find out how to get rid of them, if you want to run VMware that is.

While there is no way of knowing, exactly how relevant this is for this partly undefined case, but I would expect that definite conclusions can be drawn from this rather simple test and a Windows computer can be made to work with VMware.

If something is not relevant in this case, let me know.

EDIT: Since we don't know the Cisco VM OS, I tried also with Windows 10. It worked quite alright (with "performance counters" selected, only, on VM). Literally "tried" - since it does not seem to allow install without Microsoft login AND because I have created VMs of Win 11 using that login, it did suddenly start updating my install, in the middle of it, into Win 11 without any Cancel choice. That's Microsoft for you. This happened despite of the facts that a) I selected a fresh install for the VM, b) this ISO had just been used to install one Asus computer for Win10 Home (downloaded from Microsoft). Anyway, besides the point, but perhaps interesting, there is nothing preventing the use of VMware in this default Windows 10 Home physical computer, installed today.

[RaSystemlord]

Here is a listing of very recently, freshly installed Windows 10 Pro with latest Updates. It has more Features installed since it has Asus ROG related things, too, but there is no Microsoft virtualization active by default (as far as I can see). I haven't tried VMware on that one, though, but I cannot see any reason to check that.

[DavidT1983]

Hi,

thanks for your response.  Apologies for not responding - don't work on weekends and been busy with work.

[DavidT1983]

Hi,

So is this the steps needed to resolve this issue?  FYI I have a friend who owns a technical IT business and knows a lot about virtualization etc.  He had one of 'his guys' look at my laptop, the workstation and CML on Friday night and after 2 hours he could not figure it out.  He suggested that maybe changing the boot loader might help but he's still not sure.  He was left a bit puzzled about it all to be honest!

If you know how to resolve this issue then I cannot thank you and everyone else who has contributed in this growing thread enough.  To further help could you define the steps so I can understand them please?  As mentioned my fortay isn't in IT or virtualization so a lot of what has been said on this post is above my head 🙂

[RaSystemlord]

Based on my tests with out-of-the-box, clean Windows Home & Pro installation, just uncheck everything that is active and which I don't have active. In your previous link, you said that you are leaving some things active, which are not from the out-of-the-box situation.

Also, be sure to Reboot after changes (a proper reboot, no standby or log off). It's easy to make this mistake since Windows does not always ask for a reboot, but does not work without it.

Other solutions would be:

- Repair Windows installation (be sure to make backups from data first)

- take out all installed 3rd Party security thingies, whatever there might be. Reboot after those uninstalls or Stops.

- check all the Services, if there are STILL active things RUNNING, which you just uninstalled/made Microsoft Features unchecked. You would need to deduct from the names or compare some out-of-the-box Windows install

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If nothing of the above works, I would personally, buy a new SSD-disk, change it for the boot (don't know if that is easily possible in this particular Dell, I hope it is), install Linux there because it takes only 1-2 hours of mostly waiting and be happy using VMware for the purpose. Another possibility would be to install Windows from scratch, but that takes a long time (about 1 million reboots with Dell specific drivers&software and all the Office&stuff reinstalls). In my Linux approach, there is no need to make a backup, because all the data stays on the original disk ... of course, you could also buy a new disk for rebuilding Windows or for a temporary Windows install.

So, there are many, VERY different approaches that you can make in order to get something working. Having only one Windows computer, in my experience, is a situation that needs to be avoided.