W7 64-bit - Do I need to boot 64-bit mode?

[hvolmer2]

I have installed W7 64-bit in a VM and am not too thrilled with the performance compared to my XP VMs.

If I was to boot the Mac into 64-bit mode, would that help it's performance? Are there any drawbacks, besides drivers issues to using 64-bit mode on the Mac?

Thanks

[FusionUser321]

There is no need to boot the host OS in 64-bit mode. It is also unlikely that the performance of your guest would change significantly if you boot 64-bit mode.

The main differences in performance between XP and Win7 guests is the graphical interface of 7 and the many additional items that run in Win 7 that are not present in XP.

Quick VM performance tuning:

• Disable Aero

• Disable Sidebar

• Disable System Restore (Use Snapshots instead)

• Disable the Indexer

If you really want to get down to the nittygritty of it, head on over to Back Viper's site and review all the Windows 7 services, depending what the purpose of your guest is, you'd be surprised how much stuff can be disabled.

http://www.blackviper.com/Windows_7/servicecfg.htm

[WoodyZ]

If I was to boot the Mac into 64-bit mode, would that help it's performance?

Why wouldn't you just do it!? I mean, really! To me when someone asks a question like this it is a bit ridiculous since you are sitting right there in front of your computer and can very easily just do it and then find out first hand which way is better. Unfortunately my Mac is to old however if it wasn't I wouldn't hesitate and would have tried it without even asking because it would have taken less time just to do it then have to join a forum, ask a question and wait for a reply and the best part is gaining first hand experience and knowledge of what works better on my own system.

[hvolmer]

I realized how "ridiculous" question was shortly after I rebooted into 64-bit mode and saw that there was no benefit to using 64-bit. Thanks for pointing that out. (I didn't just join up to ask. For some reason I have two usernames and where my email address led me was evidently unused. I've never been able to get it straightened out.)

There was two parts to my question, one of which was rather obvious, but I was looking for a little education rather than a lecture. Thanks for the reply FusionUser321. I've done everything you listed except for system restore and I plowed through black viper's late last night. It certainly helped a bit. I'll look into the system restore vs snapshots thing. Are snapshots going to create a big pile of backup VMs on my machine?

Thanks.

[hvolmer]

I forgot to ask where I would disable system restore. I don't see it as a service.

It it what's called "system protection" in the advanced settings panel?

[WoodyZ]

While System Restore and Snapshots can accomplish a recovery from a bad situation they are not the same thing nor are Snapshots a backup in the traditional sense. By default System Restore can use up to 12% of the size of the hard drive (and in this case the virtual hard drive) to store Restore Points and this can be adjusted so as not to consume as much space however Snapshots have the potential to consume much more of the Host's hard drive then System Restore depending on how many snapshots you have and whether you're using AutoProtect too. Of course using both or all three will add up quickly.

Personally the first thing I do with Virtual Machines is turn off System Restore and built out my Virtual Machine in a very planned and controlled manner and then make a manual full backup of the Virtual Machine Package for restore purposes. I then maintain regular user data backups outside of the Virtual Machine and then use Snapshots in a very controlled manner and do not let them get out of hand which most users coming to the forums with snapshot issues have because they really don't use them properly. I then on regular intervals make additional manual full backup of the Virtual Machine Package for restore purposes. The bottom line is I never depend totally on just one methodology/technology for backup/recovery and implement several different methodologies/technologies to always have more the one option.

[WoodyZ]

Have a look at: Turn System Restore on or off

[hvolmer]

I just tried to run a snapshot and the entire machine became almost completely unresponsive and was giving me the the beach ball of doom. I managed to cancel the snapshot. Is this normal? Should I expect to walk away from my machine for 15 minutes when doing a snapshot? If so, I'll stick with manual backups.

[FusionUser321]

WoodyZ's advice regarding snapshots is excellent. I should have expanded on the snapshot concept a little more.

1/ The idea behind system restore is to revert to a point in history in case something goes wrong - i.e.: patch Tuesday. It's automagic and works well generally. There is overhead for this especially on the IO front which is generally acceptable for dedicated desktops but not ideal for VMs.

2/ One can approximate the function of System Restore with snapshots. Snapshots should be used only when modifying a VM, i.e. patch Tuesday, new software, etc... The idea is "I know I'm making a change so I snapshot the VM", I execute the change, and test. Once testing reveals no issues and everything works as expected, the snapshot is removed.

3/ Snapshots should not be persistent! They should only have a life of a few hours to a few days.

4/ Snapshots are not backups in anyway shape or form. For "backup" purposes the entire VM package should be copied and compressed and stored either on an external drive, time capsule or in my case a DIY NAS.

I hope this helps clarify the concept of snapshots in lieu of system restore.

[FusionUser321]

As far as timing goes - I just took a snapshot of an XP VM hot and it took less than a minute. (No available memory to fire the Win7 atm...)

Next I deleted that snapshot and another, also hot, and that took 70 seconds or so. VM was usable during this time.

So - I'm not sure why it was taking 15 minutes but that doesn't sound quite right.

PS: One more note I usually snapshot when the host is powered down - this gives me the cleanest possible snapshot and I can revert to it with confidence. (VMware can quiesce the file system but not necessarily the applications running in Windows.)

[hvolmer]

As far as timing goes - I just took a snapshot of an XP VM hot and it took less than a minute. (No available memory to fire the Win7 atm...)

Next I deleted that snapshot and another, also hot, and that took 70 seconds or so. VM was usable during this time.

So - I'm not sure why it was taking 15 minutes but that doesn't sound quite right.

PS: One more note I usually snapshot when the host is powered down - this gives me the cleanest possible snapshot and I can revert to it with confidence. (VMware can quiesce the file system but not necessarily the applications running in Windows.)

Thanks!

I did run a snapshot with the VM turned off and it didn't seem to do anything (or maybe it was just that quick.) I am under the impression that the first snapshot should be the size of the VM and follow-ups are deltas that can be much smaller. I would expect the first to take a while but not choke the system.

You say "when the host is powered down" above. Did you mean when the guest is powered down? I understand that the guest is still a host.

[WoodyZ]

I did run a snapshot with the VM turned off and it didn't seem to do anything (or maybe it was just that quick.) I am under the impression that the first snapshot should be the size of the VM and follow-ups are deltas that can be much smaller. I would expect the first to take a while but not choke the system.

All Snapshots are Deltas and the reason that first one took a bit is you probably did a Hot Snapshot vs. a Cold Snapshot.

[WoodyZ]

Your expanded Snapshot information is very good and is typically how I do it as well.

[hvolmer]

All Snapshots are Deltas and the reason that first one took a bit is you probably did a Hot Snapshot vs. a Cold Snapshot.

Thanks for the info guys. This is helping.

I don't understand how the snapshot operation that appeared to only take a second to run and wrote a 33K file could be of any use when trying to restore to a previous point. I do see a slew of files in my VM bundle that have the same creation time and similar but extended names as the snapshot file. Are these the snapshot files and did the snapshot generation take place quietly in the background unlike the hot snapshot which choked the machine?

[RParker]

Why wouldn't you just do it!? I mean, really!

Its synonymous with "I have an OK button, what should I do?".

ummm.. click the button! like .. duh!

[WoodyZ]

First of all I never ever take snapshots while the virtual machine is running and for a number of reasons and I don't have time at the moment to get into why.

If the virtual machine is shutdown when you take the snapshot the snapshot disk it creates contains no delta yet as nothing has changed within the virtual hard drive and should be very quick and very small. From the moment you turn on the virtual machine that snapshot disk then grows and continues to grow in size. When taking a snapshot with the virtual machine running it is a much more complex process and aside from the hang the snapshot disk starts off much larger by the time the process is complete.

[RParker]

First of all I never ever take snapshots while the virtual machine is running and for a number of reasons and I don't have time at the moment to get into why.

Well that's odd, because that is contrary to what snapshots were designed, and their purpose. For one there are 2 states, crash consistent, and snapshot of the memory.

You can take a snapshot in crash consistent sans memory state, and create a snapshot, which takes mere seconds. If you are in the middle of something, it seems quite odd that you stop what you are doing, shutdown the VM, take a snapshot, restart the VM just to resume work.

I understand YOU may have reservations about doing it this way, but other people may view this as flaky behavior on the part of the snapshot technology, because that's not how VM Ware intended the snapshot function to work. In fact you SHOULD take a snapshot while its running so you can have a place to revert to if you need it. So by not using this functionality live, you defeat the whole purpose of a snapshot in the first place.

[WoodyZ]

In fact you SHOULD take a snapshot while its running so you can have a place to revert to if you need it. So by not using this functionality live, you defeat the whole purpose of a snapshot in the first place.

I don't have time to fully reply to all that you just said however some of what you've said is just not accurate and while I said "I never ever take snapshots while the virtual machine is running" I didn't say you can't! Also you do indeed have a place to revert to when taking a snapshot cold and doing so or not doing so does not defeat the whole purpose!

If I have time tonight I'll expound a bit more however for the record there is absolutely nothing wrong with taking cold snapshots! If you want to take them hot that fine it's your choice!