Vista 64-bit Setup Q.

[Mac_hatter]

I got tired of having to reboot into windows and trashed that drive after a problem. Never activated, and I plan to wait 28 days or whatever before I do, which is what I have been doing - reinstalling Vista while I waited for drivers and support over the last 9 months.

Easy Setup went well. I thought it was still "not supported." False?

Password.

Used same password I've been using since RC1.

Won't.

so now I plan to trash the last half hour's install.

Memory.

It won't let me change or adjust settings and preferences to allocate more than 1GB RAM (I have 6, so that I could use 3GB for each OS).

CPU quad core Xeon Mac Pro.

I want to use two physical cpus on Mac Pro (not just one dual-core cpu, so Vista can run with all 4 cores).

I can't install Tools until I login? and I can't login because it rejected "%#@&*) as part of password.

Network.

I also am not sharing files.

I have my routers and firewalls set to block any incoming or outgoing ports used by some of the common services like Windows Sharing, Windows Printer Sharing, etc - too many problems on the net these days for my blood. Every day there are log entries of SSH, ARD etc trying to gain access.

the VM image is on another disk drive ("Scratch" which is a 1TB RAID) as a fixed 64GB image.

[SMB1]

What was the question?

[Mac_hatter]

memory. cpu. both settings are locked or can't be changed.

_______________________________________

password rejected (so I reinstalled w/0).

Password.[/b]

Used same password I've been using since RC1.

Won't. so now I plan to trash the last half hour's install.

Memory[/b].

It won't let me change or adjust settings and preferences to allocate more than 1GB RAM (I have 6, so that I could use 3GB for each OS).

CPU[/b] quad core Xeon Mac Pro.

I want to use two physical cpus on Mac Pro (not just one dual-core cpu, so Vista can run with all 4 cores).

I can't install Tools until I login? and I can't login because it rejected "%#@&*) as part of password.[/i]

(and yes, I am not swearing, those are some of the letters and characters I like to include in pswd).

[i]Vista is molasses with 1GB. [/b]

[Yaztromo]

I don't know the answers to all your questions -- I created my Vista x64 VM in around the beta 3 or 4 timeframe, and haven't had all of the issues you mention, but I can help you with a few of them:

Memory[/b].

It won't let me change or adjust settings and

preferences to allocate more than 1GB RAM (I have 6,

so that I could use 3GB for each OS).

You can't change the memory settings while the VM is "alive", any more than you can change it on a regular PC while the system is running. No PC-based OS supports the notion of dynamically changing physical RM size. This goes for anytime when the OS is suspended or in hibernation mode as well. By default, the "power" button icon in the Vista start menu puts Vista into hibernation \_only_; if you want to power the VM completely off, you have to use the little arrow to the right of the power button in the start menu, and select "Power Off". Once it has powered off, you can go into the VM settings and change the memory values.

Now if for some reason you've done this, and the GUI isn't letting you select the size you want (I don't see why it wouldn't, but then gain I don't have 6GB of RAM in any of my machines :P), you could always go and edit the VMX file for the VM and change the "memsize" setting to whatever you want it to use.

CPU[/b] quad core Xeon Mac Pro.

I want to use two physical cpus on Mac Pro (not just

one dual-core cpu, so Vista can run with all 4

cores).

Not possible in the current version of VMware. At most it will only provide access to two cores. VMware doesn't necessarily restrict (nor guarantee) that the two cores used will both be on the same physical CPU either, or that those cores won't be time-sliced by OS X for other duties.

[i]Vista is molasses with 1GB. [/b]

I'm running Vista in a 768MB VM without much issues. I found that going into msconfig and disabling services made a HUGE difference for me -- there are a lot of services in there that really don't make a whole lot of sense within the VM environment (at least outside specific cases). ReadyBoost and SuperFetch can be discarded (AFAICT, VMware uses OS X's disk caching facilities for the virtual disk, and doubling up on the caching just wastes RAM). The Vista firewall can also be disabled if you're using Vista as a desktop OS and have the OS X firewall enabled. If you're not using Vista for web browsing or e-mail, you can probably also safely disable the anti-spyware and any anti-virus tools you have (especially if you're making use of VMware snapshots frequently). There are a ton of other services such as these that can be disabled.

If you do a search of these forums, I have a post up here somewhere detailing an experiment I ran to try to make the Vista paging subsystem significantly more efficient by effectively forcing it to rely on OS X's paging subsystem. This was accomplished by creating an OS X RAM disk, using vmware-vdiskmanager to allow it to be accessed from the VM, and then telling Vista to format and use the new virtual disk for swapping. The benefit here (conceptually) is that you're system doesn't now have two swap-to-disk subsystems running at once. The RAM disk isn't marked as being in wired memory, thus is itself swappable by OS X. I haven't had an opportunity to see if any performance benefit might be offset by just dedicating more memory to the VM, but it may be something you want to experiment with.

HTH!

Yaz.

[admin]

It won't let me change or adjust settings and

preferences to allocate more than 1GB RAM (I have 6,

so that I could use 3GB for each OS).

Are you able to change this at all? What are the recommended values (min/max/suggested)? What is the memory usage when you try this (wired/active/inactive/free)?

[Mac_hatter]

A Mac Pro with only 1GB of RAM would run as slow as molasses. What works on MBP and iMac is not true on this machine. Where 2GB is minimal and 4GB is more common configuration (and to make better use of memory bandwidth).

I tried to change preferences a number of times and it never let me, always grayed out. I even read the pdfs to see if I was missing something. it isn't clear - it perhaps should during setup, no? Running, not running, it never allowed changes.

I still don't understand "Power off" vs hybernation and suspend mode... seems like all I want is to Save or Load. It even let me do something and the next time Windows said it wasn't shutdown properly.

By default, the "power" button icon in the Vista start menu puts Vista into hibernation \_only_; if you want to power the VM completely off, you have to use the little arrow to the right of the power button in the start menu, and select "Power Off". Once it has powered off, you can go into the VM settings and change the memory values.

Windows Vista? or Fusion toolbar?

Having used Vista x64 natively for a year, it always ran smoothly. It just wasn't convenient but I didn't think running a VM would take such a huge hit. I am installing Ubuntu right now and it makes everything else on the Mac side slow down and trouble loading web page even.

I can see turning down Aero and returning to an XP interface - until it starts to make better use of the GPU and VRAM - which it isn't.

[Mac_hatter]

I'm not entirely sure what steps lead to being able to change memory and processors. It doesn't seem to be "just" A or B.

After launching Fusion application, but none of the Guest OS, click on guest, then settings, SHOULD work. That is what I have tried. Didn't this time. start-stop-suspend....

I finally, and don't know how, got to change settings with 3.6GB allocated and dual core, it runs much better. Now if only it would access even half the 256MB of GDDR3 VRAM.

I'm surprised I can't see my other disk drives, all internal, FAT and NTFS. I don't want to "share" those, but I did want to run Backup etc.

[Yaztromo]

I still don't understand "Power off" vs hybernation

and suspend mode... seems like all I want is to Save

or Load. It even let me do something and the next

time Windows said it wasn't shutdown properly.

Okay then -- let me try to explain. "Suspend" mode is a VMware Fusion feature that has no real analogue in the real world (although it is similar to Hibernation, as I'll get to in a moment). When a VM is suspended, Fusion takes the entire virtual machines system memory and saves it to your hard disk as-is, so the next time you resume the suspended OS, it is in exactly the same state you suspended it in. The important part to be aware of here: [i]Vista in suspend mode doesn't know that it isn't running[/i][/b]. When you resume Vista (or any other OS really) from suspend mode, all programs that were running continue to run from the point they were suspended at, as if nothing happened at all. Think of it as a safe, reliable "pause" mode for your virtual machine (one that is so safe, you can reboot your Mac and once it's back up, unpause the Vista virtual machine and return to exactly the point you paused it at). Suspend is activated by a) closing the VM window n single-window mode, b) pressing the Suspend toolbar button, or c) selecting from the Fusion menu "Virtual Machine->Suspend".

Hibernation is similar, however in the case of Hibernation, instead of Fusion "pausing" the Vista VM it's Vista itself doing the work. Vista will take everything in its virtual machine memory and will save it to the virtual hard drive. On your next boot of the virtual machine, it will detect the memory file on the virtual drive, and will load it instead of doing a normal reboot. Hibernation is typically activated by clicking on the Vista start menu and pressing the "power button" icon at the bottom.

Trying to add RAM in either case doesn't work in a real, physical PC, so Fusion won't allow you to do it either. In the suspend case, as Vista has absolutely no way to know that it isn't actually running, adding RAM would be like trying to open a running PC and stick RAM into it while it has power -- even if this were electrically safe to do, Vista can't detect the memory. It's not exactly equivalent, but try to think of this as akin to adding RAM to your Mac Pro while it's in sleep mode (as opposed to being turned off).

Hibernation is a trickier situation for adding RAM, because on a real PC there is nothing physically preventing you from adding memory while the system is hibernating. However, Microsoft traditionally hasn't supported this -- they even have a knowledge base article on the subject (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/831691/en-us) (it doesn't mention Vista, but the article was last updated before Vista's release, and I can't find any information on whether this has been fixed in Vista or not).

Because changing the RAM value can cause Vista to go into a tizzy if it's in Suspend or Hibernation mode, VMware doesn't permit you to do it -- the controls for memory will be greyed out in either case. The only safe way to change RAM in Windows (in either[/i] VMware or on a real PC) is to shut down Vista completely. To do this, from within your Vista VM, open the Start Menu (the Windows icon at the bottom-left of the display). At the bottom-right of the Start menu there are three icons -- one that looks like a power button (but which puts the system into Hibernation mode), one that locks your computer, and a smaller one that looks like a right-pointing arrow. Click the arrow, and select "Shut Down". Once the VM has fully shut down (you'll see a big "Play" button in the middle of the Window) you'll be able to open the VM's Settings and change the memory options.

By default, the "power" button icon in the Vista

start menu puts Vista into hibernation \_only_; if you

want to power the VM completely off, you have to use

the little arrow to the right of the power button in

the start menu, and select "Power Off". Once it has

powered off, you can go into the VM settings and

change the memory values.

Windows Vista? or Fusion toolbar?

I pretty clearly said "Vista start menu" above. However, pressing the "Shut Down" button in Fusion may also put Vista into Hibernation mode. To be safe, use the directions I've posted above.

HTH!

Yaz.

[Yaztromo]

I'm not entirely sure what steps lead to being able

to change memory and processors. It doesn't seem to

be "just" A or B.

It is. You just have to make sure the virtual machine is completely powered off. The fact that it's not actively loaded or running on your Mac does not[/b] imply it isn't running -- you can't change the memory or processor settings for virtual machines that are in suspend or hibernation mode, any more than you can add processors or memory to your Mac Pro when it's simply asleep. And while you can't damage the virtual machine physically by adding memory to it from within Fusion in such a case, the operating systems running inside Fusion don't understand the concept. At all. And it will mess them up. Seriously. So Fusion prevents you from changing such settings when the VM is in one of these modes.

After launching Fusion application, but none of the

Guest OS, click on guest, then settings, SHOULD work.

That is what I have tried. Didn't this time.

start-stop-suspend....

As mentioned previously, this shouldn't[/b] work in suspend mode, for the reasons mentioned above.

I'm surprised I can't see my other disk drives, all

internal, FAT and NTFS. I don't want to "share"

those, but I did want to run Backup etc.

This is a virtual machine. It doesn't automatically have any special access to the "real" machine. Now I'll be the first to admit, Fusion needs some improved UI for handling this sort of situation. It doesn't allow you to easily bind a real partition to a (non-BootCamp based) VM. However, you can do this manually from the command line, using the "vmware-rawdiskCreator" tool (it's in "/Library/Application Support/VMware Fusion"). This will create a VMware virtual disk file stub which points to the real partition, allowing you to add it to whatever VM you want. Once it's been added, you don't have to do any more work -- just use it as you normally would.

Running vmware-rawdiskCreator will give you information on how to use the tool, but if you need some help, post a message. HTH!

Yaz.

[Mac_hatter]

So if I suspend and shutdown the Vista VM, that is why when I first launched the Fusion application, the VM was not in a 'state' where it could have setting preferences changed?

I really really think, that as part of the setup walk-thru in setting up any VM, that the user be given a choice to change those preferences.

does it have to get fully installed before it can be changed?

to my mind, I would think that was when it would be easiest.

I do recall setting image size AND allocate physical memory in Virtual PC 5-6 yrs ago (around the time of '98 and ME).

You know, just saying "The VM is in suspect state and can't make changes" in the preference panel would go a LONG way. And offer to shut it down.

I assume it is suppose to be faster to bring it out of suspend than a regular boot?

Oh yes, Vista didn't like seeing the new memory configuration even when I did make the changes. Said that it would lose something or wasn't shutdown properly.

OS X was new to me in 2000 (beta) and even after a year of gradually using Windows 'a little' it is still rather new. I felt comfortable with native Vista as long as it worked. And I knew the only way to understand or 'research' Fusion was to dive in (after making sure I have multiple backups and such).

I've got a bookmark on a 300 page? pdf / html guide to VMware. That should be on the CD as well.

One last question for now:

Install VMware Fusion Tools.

It never completes. I've inserted the CD (at first I thought maybe it had Tools inside its own application package). So eventually I just cancel it. I thought maybe THAT was what I needed, and WHY I couldn't change preferences, that the two were tied together.

[RDPetruska]

>Install VMware Fusion Tools.

>It never completes.

Most likely because your Vista guest has autorun disabled on it's CD-ROM drive. So, just like most Linux guests, YOU must manually run the installer yourself inside the guest. Open Explorer, double-click the CD-ROM drive (probably Drive D), and it will either open a window showing the contents of the CD, or launch the Setup. If the former, then double-click the file Setup.exe.

[admin]

So if I suspend and shutdown the Vista VM, that is

why when I first launched the Fusion application, the

VM was not in a 'state' where it could have setting

preferences changed?

If by "shutdown" you mean "closed the window", then yes. These are not the same things.

I really really think, that as part of the setup

walk-thru in setting up any VM, that the user be

given a choice to change those preferences.

The idea was to keep the setup simple. There's always some extra thing that people want to tweak, and it'd be way too cluttered to include all of them. You can alter settings before running the virtual machine for the first time by deselecting the "Start virtual machine and install operating system now" box.

You know, just saying "The VM is in suspect state and

can't make changes" in the preference panel would go

a LONG way. And offer to shut it down.

Yep, we know.

I assume it is suppose to be faster to bring it out

of suspend than a regular boot?

It should be.

I've got a bookmark on a 300 page? pdf / html guide

to VMware. That should be on the CD as well.

If you're talking about the Help, it is on the CD (in the sense that it gets installed to your computer, so the bits are there even if not easily available). Note the URL - it's localhost.

One last question for now:

Robert's already answered this, so I'll skip it.

[Mac_hatter]

Adding a step to set the amount of memory is needed.

Whether it should default to 1GB (which is horribly low for a Mac Pro running OS X even) or 50% or some other value.

In the "Virtual Machine Library" all it has is a list of VMs.

What I want is I think what MS Virtual PC had maybe, a line showing the STATE of the VM would help. Maybe show how much memory is allocated. Some details displayed.

yes, people have their preferences. Guess what? I use to program those 'dumb terminal' screens used to access files and databases on mainframes. And I got to figure out what was needed to make it user friendly (and user proof, too).

So show if it is in suspended mode right there in the Fusion Library list. heck, even the size, amount used and free might be helpful.

But it has to be more helpful. It is bare bones. Fine, it is 1.0 and working. But it isn't 'polished' yet.

now that I have 3.6GB allocated, I also get 128MB VRAM as a side-effect and it is almost acceptable performance.

[Mac_hatter]

I often like to use 10-key number pad.

Keyboard and mouse support.

Under a 'native' Vista I could enable "Num Lock".

Is there a way?

Unity. No need it seems to learn different key commands...

(Now if I could only save to, copy to/from Mac hard drive rather than use 4GB flash memory card.)

[RDPetruska]

>Under a 'native' Vista I could enable "Num Lock".

>Is there a way?

Doesn't just hitting/toggling the Num Lock key work?

[Mac_hatter]

No luck with hitting the Num Lock.

I thought at first it was because I didn't have the Tools installed, but I did that yesterday.

Perhaps the Mac Pro or that it is connected via the Apple Cinema HD USB hub (the computer would need USB extension).

I noticed in the "Settings" that I had not set the ACD under USB device list. So I assume that once I shutdown Vista, then Shutdown the VM and then Restart or Run the VM again tomorrow, it might be there?

Because the keyboard and flash memory (USB) worked, I didn't think I needed to make any changes in "settings."

Or maybe it has something to do with the way keys are remapped... ?

[admin]

Hubs and HID are not shown in Settings, in the menu, or in the icon bar.

Do you have keyboard remapping software? What kind of keyboard are you using?

[Mac_hatter]

I have an Apple Mac Pro w/ the keyboard it comes with. An Apple Cinema Display with USB connections. And the keyboard connects thru the display.

Settings shows there is an APC UPS that has its USB connection present, which is also in the list (sub-list) of USB devices.

I was gettings "alert warnings" (now turned off) that devices were not running at 2.0 speed (and obviously they don't need to) when in Vista.

The Apple keyboard has a flash memory card and MS Intellimouse Optical.

And no there is no remapping software.

Tip: "Input Remapper" is very useful for Vista for some MacBooks etc but also, is the only way I found running a native Vista (not Fusion) to insure that the Mac Pro's fans run high enough to insure it cools the system as otherwise those MacBooks etc will over-heat and the Mac Pro probably as well.

Still doesn't tell me why or what to do with USB device connections.

[Mac_hatter]

If the main Fusion application, with the list of VMs available, would show the STATE of each (suspend etc) would help.

I never put the computer to sleep, or hybernate or suspend, whether OS X or Vista, unless it is just for an hour or so (walk away for a break or lunch) so it was always "shutdown" state.

Seems like NOT installing now \*might* give me the option to set memory, processor, other settings BEFORE trying to run. Because the defaults are inadequate and not reflect the OS itself or my hardware and its resources.

1/3 of installed physicsl memory

1/2 number of cores (especially when more people have quad core single cpu, and dual quad core in the next year)

PS: someone mentioned "you can't change a running system.

You can disable cpus in CHUD. or Open Firmware. From terminal.

I think changing page file settings or even the amount of memory to be loaded ON NEXT RESTART is absolutely \*fine.* There is a way to do so in Vista and I'm sure XP.

There are tools to change bus, memory and other timings in XP.

And all safe (done right) but it isn't 'swapping' physical components.