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RolandZi
Contributor
Contributor

VMs shut down immediately after start in Fusion Player 13.5 on Sonoma

Hi,

I am on a Mac Mini 2018 (Intel)

After upgrading to Mac OS Sonoma and
Player-Version 13.5.0 (22583790)
all virtual machines which I ran for years show the same behaviour.
About three seconds after start they just quit without any error message.
Things I tried so far:
Uninstalling fusion manually and reinstalling according to https://kb.vmware.com/s/article/1017838
Following all the steps suggested in: https://kb.vmware.com/s/article/1014534#:~:text=Restart%20the%20Mac%20OS%20X,Fusion%20from%20the%20V....
Temporarily disconnecting all USB devices except the keyboard.

 

The behaviour is the same for Linux and Windows VMs.
I went through the logs but without an obvious hint on what is going wrong here.
Has anyone seen this before?
I would be grateful if someone could point me in the right direction here - I attach an example log.

Thanks and best
Roland

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45 Replies
Technogeezer
Immortal
Immortal


@OnjMusic wrote:

Hello. Has there been any news on this post?


@Mikero updated us less than a week ago. I'm sure he'll let us know if there's a change. If this is an Apple bug/regression it's not going to be a quick fix.

- Paul (Technogeezer)
Editor of the Unofficial Fusion Companion Guides
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IllLustration
Contributor
Contributor

Hi. I hate to push, but ... any news?

Following a forced (or accidental, depending on who you ask) Sonoma upgrade on my main machine from which it's not really possible to justify a complete downgrade, the situation is now somewhat more urgent, and two months without ready access to VMs may not be a long time, but it certainly feels like it. I'm guessing this will be rolled up into a bugfix release, but I was just wondering what the status of this issue is? By way of illustration of my needs, I now have a new BootCamp partition for Windows on my 2020 Intel iMac, and I'm getting to grips with UTM for running both Windows and textmode Linux under QEMU and, for Linux, Apple's Virtualization support. I'd really rather not leave VMware Fusion for an all-in-one solution that runs well on contemporary Apple hardware and supports graphics acceleration and hotplugged USB devices, and I appreciate that this is probably something Apple are dragging their feet on as much as anything else they do in accessibility, but this bug has really changed the dynamics of credibly using both Fusion and macOS exclusively as a host, whoever's at fault, and I have to make a hardware purchase in the near future based on whether I can expect to use both Linux and Windows VMs with support for USB external hardware, and there won't be the fallback of dual-boot on Intel to compensate. Do we have anything like an ETA for when a fix will appear? Even knowing that it's been fixed pending the update would be news I could use.

Here's to hoping. Thanks in advance for any updates. I'll watch this space. Cheers.
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Technogeezer
Immortal
Immortal

@Mikero Is there any movement or hope for a fix? Your last update was 2 months ago and it's been over 6 months since the issue was originally found.

- Paul (Technogeezer)
Editor of the Unofficial Fusion Companion Guides
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unix_fan
Contributor
Contributor

I've been testing other VM software on the mac with Sonoma using an app called VOCr, which gives voiceover the ability to take a screenshot of the screen and perform OCR on it. So far, fusion is the only app running into this issue, which makes me question if this is truly an apple "bug" to begin with. I'm still holding out hope that this will be fixed, as using voiceover with an OCR application is really clunky.

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Mikero
Community Manager
Community Manager

It's 100% an Apple bug, reported, filed. I expect they'll fix it in a future macOS, but I can't speak for Apple.

-
Michael Roy - Product Marketing Engineer: VCF
Tags (1)
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garrykycor
Contributor
Contributor

Has the Apple Accessibility team had this bug report filed to them to see if they can help grease the internal Apple wheels?

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IllLustration
Contributor
Contributor

I can see that the "vmware-vmx" binary is setuid and therefore a candidate for whatever breaking change Apple introduced into AppKit. Interesting that only Fusion seems to be affected—perhaps it's specific to legacy architecture? Regardless, I have no wish to use OCR to use a VM app—that's just madness, as well as being inconvenient.

Anyway, the fact that it's an Apple bug also means there's no realistic possibility of a fix in the short-term. I'll write to the general accessibility address to let them know (and suggest others affected do likewise), but obviously this isn't something I'd expect the front-line to take much of an interest in. Not the greatest news, but forewarned is forearmed and all that, I guess. I'll make plans. Thanks for the update.
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Mikero
Community Manager
Community Manager

I'm more optimistic.

Has anyone tested with the latest Sonoma Beta?

-
Michael Roy - Product Marketing Engineer: VCF
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OnjMusic
Contributor
Contributor

I was forcefully upgraded to Sonoma last weekend, just before I had to go and teach at a college. Irritating, yes. thankfully, not a showstopper though, as someone on Mastodon told me that turning off VoiceOver when loading allows VM's to run.
If you plan to adjust anything such as 'where does this USB device connect?' Or 'Hey, I want to switch from NAT to Bridged' well, yeah. Just don't.
Still, I was successfully able to do what I needed to do for two days away from home with Windows, and just shut the VM down when loading VoiceOver.
Unacceptable, irritating, but needs must, and I *needed* the machine to work.
I hope it doesn't take until 2025 to solve this utter mess.

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Technogeezer
Immortal
Immortal

@Mikero - is Apple admitting that it's their bug (just because it's reported doesn't mean that something VMware is doing isn't quite right).

Just because "Fusion is the only application that has the problem" does not necessarily mean that its Fusion's fault. It's possible that Fusion was built "to the letter of Apple's law" but does something out of the ordinary but within the rules that Apple didn't anticipate and/or changed its behavior in Sonoma. 

- Paul (Technogeezer)
Editor of the Unofficial Fusion Companion Guides
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Mikero
Community Manager
Community Manager

I can't speak for Apple or what they think.

I can say from our perspective we're following the letter of the law, something changed. It's unclear if this change is deliberate or a consequence of other changes made for other reasons.

The challenge for us is that to address this on our end we would have more areas to adjust than is feasible, and it would be for naught if Apple issued a "fix" which we would then have to back-pedal and un-fix from our side to 'fix-fix' it for the user. 

Rock vs. hard-place.

 

-
Michael Roy - Product Marketing Engineer: VCF
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Technogeezer
Immortal
Immortal


@Mikero wrote:

The challenge for us is that to address this on our end we would have more areas to adjust than is feasible, and it would be for naught if Apple issued a "fix" which we would then have to back-pedal and un-fix from our side to 'fix-fix' it for the user. 

Rock vs. hard-place.


Understand your position, but I know you understand that users that need to use VoiceOver or Full Keyboard Access are also caught between a rock and a hard place. 

I'm sure there are more details in your developer bug report interaction than you can share here. All I can say is keep the pressure on Apple for a resolution... 

- Paul (Technogeezer)
Editor of the Unofficial Fusion Companion Guides
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unix_fan
Contributor
Contributor

Well, just uupdated to the latest beta a few minutes ago, and it seems to finally work. I was able to boot to UEFI on an empty VM. I'll go test linux and windows and report back.

unix_fan
Contributor
Contributor

Alright, happy to report this seems to be fixed on sonoma 14.4 beta 2. I managed to start a linux VM with voiceover enabled and install ubuntu on it.

Running into some issues trying to install windows, but don't think this is related to the original issue.

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Technogeezer
Immortal
Immortal

@unix_fan 

This is indeed a promising update with the macOS 10.14 beta. If you get a chance, could you test with the system setting "Full keyboard access"? That setting seems to exhibit the same behavior when it's enabled as VoiceOver does. 

Keep us posted!

- Paul (Technogeezer)
Editor of the Unofficial Fusion Companion Guides
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IllLustration
Contributor
Contributor

Will wonders never cease? Still, awfully convenient ...

I'll certainly be testing this shortly, though it's not my usual policy to use betas on my production machine.

@Technogeezer I believe VO and Keyboard Access are simply incompatible, so you can't have them both enabled at the same time. And, of course, a VoiceOver user already has that functionality. I think someone sighted will have to do it.
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Technogeezer
Immortal
Immortal


@IllLustration wrote:
@TechnogeezerI believe VO and Keyboard Access are simply incompatible, so you can't have them both enabled at the same time. And, of course, a VoiceOver user already has that functionality. I think someone sighted will have to do it.

You’re probably right that they are incompatible. I didn’t explicitly make the distinction that Full Keyboard Access should be turned on by itself, and not with VoiceOver. 

- Paul (Technogeezer)
Editor of the Unofficial Fusion Companion Guides
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unix_fan
Contributor
Contributor

I don't think you can enable full keyboard access when voiceover is enabled, at least its not letting me do it. Won't be able to test, but someone sighted can probably figure it out.

Just a warning for anyone trying to install windows fresh, fusion currently throws an error when converting the windows 11 ESD. I used CrystalFetch to get around this particular issue. Also, Microsoft has broken narrator on both the installer and setup screen, meaning you'll probably need sighted help for it. I was able to import a windows installation by converting a disk from a parallels machine, and that did the trick. Since the easy install option doesn't show for windows, I assume its not a viable workaround. You can modify the .wim files in the installer ISO to get Narrator to start during install and setup, but I haven't tested this myself.

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Technogeezer
Immortal
Immortal

What's the error you get when you try to convert the Windows 11 ESD?

Currently the only known ESD conversion error occurs when you are running a non-English version of macOS and you try to use the GUI "Get Windows from Microsoft" option in the "Choose an installation source" dialog.  That can be worked around by using the command line version of the utility to convert the ESD to ISO (it's documented in the Unofficial Companion Guide https://communities.vmware.com/t5/VMware-Fusion-Documents/The-Unofficial-Fusion-for-Apple-Silicon-Co... )

- Paul (Technogeezer)
Editor of the Unofficial Fusion Companion Guides
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unix_fan
Contributor
Contributor

My system is set to english. The conversion starts, but stops at 45%, when I retry. I only get "Esd2iso tool failed to create Windows 11 Iso File.". If the tool creates log files, I could look at that.

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