Quicken for Windows and Dropbox

[MacNephDoc]

Up until now, I've used my Windows VM almost exclusively to review or edit data that's automatically stored on servers elsewhere (my Exchange Server, or the hosts of apps I run that DEMAND I access them only via Windows Internet Explorer).

Now, however, Mac OS X 10.7 has upped the ante. Once I move to Lion "full time" I'll no longer be able to run Quicken (I use Quicken 2006). I've looked at most of the "front runners" among Intel code Mac programs that have been suggested as replacements, none that I've tried meet my needs. Jumsoft's "Money 4.0" can't import split transactions from my QIF file; iBank 4.x doesn't understand Quicken's "tags", etc., etc.

So, the solution that seems most appropriate is to run Quicken for Windows in my Fusion VM. However, that will create a first-for-me scenario where the integrity of data stored locally in my Window VM suddenly becomes important.

Also, up until now my usual workflow (home Mac Pro and mobile MacBook Pro) has included synchronizing files in the ~/Documents folders of the two computers just before I leave home and again just before I start using the Mac Pro after returning home.

The obvious issue here is keeping my Quicken data up to date. Does anyone here know whether Quicken 2011 will work seamlessly with its datafile stored in Dropbox? Does anyone know whether, if that's not possible, there's a way to synchronize the files on the two VMs when they're networked? (What I do now is use "Synchronize! Pro X," which compares designated files/folders on two machines and replaces the older version with the newer if it's been changed on one of the two computers—it also warns the user if the file has been changed on both, but of course it cannot do "record level" synchronization.

Any thoughts?

Thanks so much

[WoodyZ]

I would never under any circumstances whatsoever place confidential financial information like Quicken, QuickBooks, etc. Databases on services like Dropbox, etc., regardless of whether it's encrypted or not.

[MacNephDoc]

Woody, you've answered a question I didn't ask. I appreciate your concern, but I'm still in the dark whether what I'm considering doing is technically possible. I'm aware that Dropbox security hasn't always been what was claimed, but I do believe they're making strides to improve it. Still, that's not the issue here.

Thanks,

[WoodyZ]

I wasn't attempting to answer your question, whether asked or not, and was just making a comment.

I do not have Quicken, at the present time, to test with however from past experience and unless things have changed then by default Quicken wants the database on the local volume.  Although in some older versions I was able to force it to a Network Share nonetheless I wouldn't necessarily recommend this for application not specifically designed to maintain the database over a network.

[gbullman]

I abandoned Quicken for Windows once they were going to force me off of Quicken 2008 to continue to pay my bills through the register.  Note that it will be a somewhat painful process to go from Quicken on the Mac to Quicken on Windows (VM or otherwise).  Quicken was actually the last program I use for personal use that was on Windows and when Quicken was forcing me to upgrade again I switched to Moneydance on my Mac.  Admittedly it is a little more effort on my part to pay bills (but only a little) but I have removed my last personal dependency on Windows.  The migration of data from Quicken on Windows to Moneydance on Mac was very comparable to what you'll have to do going from Quicken on Mac to Quicken on Windows.

Note that one of the VMs I used for Quicken for Windows had its My Documents mapped to my Mac.  I basically stored the Windows formatted files on my Mac so they would be backed up by Time Machine & Mozy and they could be shared via File Sharing if needed.  This configuration worked fine (Quicken remember the last file that was open).  I had also used straight host file shares on the same VM before switching to the mapping.  This also worked but I had to either double click on the data file or open the file within quicken after starting the program.  It did not seem to remember the last open file with that configuration.

Hope this helps.

Quicken for Windows is a much better app from my experience and from what I've read.  Just note you'll have to spend $50, $60 or more about every 3 years as Quicken obsoletes older versions.  I'm hoping I don't have to got through that game with Moneydance.

Good Luck.

[MacNephDoc]

Thanks for your many helpful suggestions. My experience with Jumsoft's "Money" (not specifically recommended by others, but I'd just been blown away by their eye-candy email templates that I had to try it) was grim.

I looked at iBank. It mangled the importing of my QIF file and just looked foreign to the way of working I'd imprinted on my brain during 15 years of using Quicken. I was almost convinced there was no hope for a non-Intuit substitute, but yesterday I downloaded MoneyDance, and I think I've found my replacement.

Account reconciliation is not quite as elegant. All my credit card balances show up as negative numbers. BUT (big issue for me) it supports, even enhances Quicken's concept of "classes" (allows multiple classes to be used for the same transaction), and the UI isn't really that different overall from Quicken's.

So, my issues with backing up a Quicken datafile from a Windows VM seem moot.

I'm hoping that another day of "double entry" (not in the accounting sense, but in the two - program parallel use sense) testing will not uncover any "gotchas" that make MoneyDance untenable for me.

I've not really explored reporting yet. I make extensive use of that from Quicken when I visit my accountant once a year. I think I'll be OK, but creating reports seems not quite as user-friendly in MoneyDance at first blush.

I'm careening away from VMware discussion here, but I have one question about importing my Quicken QIF file into MoneyDance. After I'd done it in one single step, I found a MoneyDance knowledgebase article that said I should do it in two: first import the account info, then the account data. I haven't found errors in my imported data yet, but there are thousands of transactions accumulated over 15+ years in my Quicken datafile. Do you have any suggestions for comparing the integrity of my imported dataset?

Thanks again!

[RDPetruska]

Honestly, with my Quicken on my Windows hosts, I just ALWAYS back up my Quicken file (from the Quicken menu) to a USB flash disk... but it can be any disk or network share path, too.  That way, I get two benefits - first, I can transfer my file between PCs and have the up-to-date datafile; second, it is a backup if the main drive fails or the file gets corrupted.  I personally would just do the same exact thing if I were running Quicken in a VM.

[gwsat]

I have been running Quicken for Windows, Currently Quicken 2010, under Fusion for years and have been happy with my setup.  I have also been using DropBox as the repository for my Quicken backup flles.  They are encrypted, of course, so if I may be permitted to respectfully disagree with another poster, I have not been worried that my data might be pirated from the DropBox cloud. 

By putting my backups in my DropBox folder it is possible to do a Quicken backup anytime anywhere with a simple keyboard key combination.  Also, it is possible to restore a Quicken backup from anywhere at any time.  Before the advent of DropBox, I used a USB drive, which worked but was far less convenient than the DropBox solution has been.  I should add that if there has been any systematic pilfering of DropBox data, I haven't heard of it. 

[WoodyZ]

gwsat wrote: so if I may be permitted to respectfully disagree with another poster

You certainly are free to disagree with me, I have no problem with that, however knowing what I know when it comes to IT I'm not going to place confidential financial information onto a service such as Dropbox.  To me convenience is totally irrelevant and security is paramount!

Sorry I do not have time to get into the details of why and actually I  will no longer be as active in these forums as I have in recent years.

Also if I understood the OP correctly the OP wanted to run the active database from Dropbox, not just use it as a backup repository and even if it can be done I wouldn't do it, however to each their own.

[gwsat]

Woody -- First I greatly respect your longtime participation here and hope that my post didn't come off as snarky.  I didn't intend for it to do that.  I have data files other than my Quicken backups in my DropBox folder, too, but there is nothing in any of them that I regard as sensitive.  I would, however, think twice becore running programs directly, too.  I don't do that and don't intend to do so.  My fondness for DropBox has its limits.:) 

[WoodyZ]

There was nothing whatsoever wrong with what you said or how you said it, we just happened to disagree on the issue and I'm fine with that and you should be too.  Nor did it have anything to do with my saying... I  will no longer be as active in these forums as I have in recent years...  I mentioned that because it is as it is and I didn't want to just disappear without saying something.  Have a good one...

[jpa8r]

I've been running the setup you describe for several years without a problem.  I have the quicken files on the Mac side in a dropbox folder.  This folder is then part of what I share with the windows VM in fusion.  The latest version of quicken for windows handles this with no problem (it used to balk at network locations for files, especially once they exceeded a certain size).  I do this in part so I can use quicken easily from two different computers (which dropbox keep synchronized).  In short, its been painless for me.  As for the encryption, nothing is obviously foolproof, but both dropbox and quicken have a lot of $ to lose if they get hacked in a big way...and both would have to have their security compromised to be a problem.  Plus, at least my bank/broker has a policy of covering the cost of online fraud, so to me, the risk seems manageable, even if not non-existent (certainly not a lot greater than the risk of someone just taking my bank deposit envelope out of my mailbox or somewhere in the mail system, and getting my account #'s, etc.).

[gwsat]

Yeah, as noted, I don't worry much about the security of the data in my DropBox folder.  Still, Woody has a point.  It's a matter of what your comfort level is.  In my case, the only truly sensitive stuff I keep in the cloud is in the form of my Quicken backup files and they are encrypted and password protected.  As you point out, DropBox provides so much flexibility for people who use laptops and travel or use multiple machines, it's worth the (slight) risk involved in using it.  Better yet, DropBox has proved to be utterly stable and reliable in my operation.  It's not an accident that it has become so popular and widely used.

[MacNephDoc]

May I ask a few other questions about Moneydance?

Do you miss the Calendar from Quicken (easy way to move transactions that were entered into the wrong account (I have 2 Chase VISA cards for example, and sometimes I have to move transactions from one to the other).

Does it bother you that you can have only one account window open at a time?

Does it bother you that the "Reconcile" routine doesn't include statement dates?

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I've now found some balance differences in my Quicken vs. Moneydance files. So far, they all seem to errors created by Quicken (for example, ATM withdrawals from my checking account to my Cash account that show up twice in the Quicken "Cash" file, once with no amount, a second time with the correct amount; in each of these cases it appears I used the "Cash" account as the only item in a "split." So, 2 transactions show up in Moneydance!

In another instance I had multiple distributions into the same expense category in one credit card purchase (I did that because I wanted an itemized record of the large dollar purchases within the transaction). Moneydance created two transactions, one summing JUST the distributions to this one expense category, a second that included ALL the distributions (so it was discoverable because it had a higher total dollar amount).

I may yet decide to go the Quicken for Windows in a VM route.

[gbullman]

I don't track my charges on credit cards, but just divide up the charges to categories when I pay the bill so can't help you with the question about moving transactions.  Reconciliation is did work a bit easier / more smoothly on Quicken, but Moneydance has proven to be adequate for my needs.  I never check the statement date checkbox and have to manually clear transactions.  Takes a little more time, but has worked flawlessly since early this year.

I would position Moneydance as a viable alternative to Quicken if you want to run natively on the Mac instead of VMs.  Its online bill pay is compatible with pretty much any bank that supports Quicken, again not quite as convenient (can't have multiple categories when entering the payment, you have to edit it when it shows up in your register).

I would not position myself as a Quicken power user, I basically am tracking my Checking & Savings accounts with an approximation of investments.  I pay my bills online for the most part and run reports for tax purposes.  Moneydance does a good enough job at all that for me.

I understand that Quicken on Windows is more feature rich, some of which were pretty handy, I just got sick of being forced into upgrades that I didn't need from a feature perspective.  Not sure what they kept doing to bill pay that broke compatibility on a regular basis, I got to the point that it was just a means of forcing users to upgrade and got off that train.