VMware Communities
OdS
Contributor
Contributor

OpenGL in Fusion ?

As support for DX9 is now integrated in Fusion, is there any hope to have the same for OpenGL ?

Reply
0 Kudos
51 Replies
MacSolidWorks
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Yes, when is OpenGL going to be included in Fusion? It's been 11 months since I asked this question last, I think you've had enough time to at least give us a hint as to wether you're working on the issue.

I'm using SolidWorks and would really like to get better graphics support. Let Parallels peddle their game compatibility, why doesn't VMware focus on people who need to get some real work done!






Those who say it cannot be done shouldn't interrupt the people doing it.

Those who say it cannot be done shouldn't interrupt the people doing it.
Reply
0 Kudos
BP9906
Expert
Expert

A VMware employee can correct me if I'm wrong...

OpenGL has been requested as a feature and is on the ToDo list.

Because DirectX has a higher request for support than OpenGL, they have been focusing their efforts on that. OpenGL is already supported in OSX so technically the OpenGL software you're using shoudl be able to create an Mac Version, but have failed to do so. Yet another reason why OpenGL is not a high priority on the list...

I hope this helps you guys understand why its not yet been implemented.

Happy Holidays! Smiley Happy

Reply
0 Kudos
MacSolidWorks
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Yes, I would agree with you normally, but there are programs such as SolidWorks that do not have a corresponding Mac version. Therein lies the rub, since Mac is already OpenGL why is it such a hassle for VMware to get it going? For Pete's sake, they've had almost a full year and still there's no experimental support for OpenGL.

This DirectX crap is really just for game support for all intents and purposes. Having used both Fusion and Parallels, VMware is wasting it's time trying to compete with Parallels on the game compatibility. Leave the toys to Parallels, and let Fusion rule the enterprise world.






Those who say it cannot be done shouldn't interrupt the people doing it.

Those who say it cannot be done shouldn't interrupt the people doing it.
Reply
0 Kudos
rogermh
Contributor
Contributor

I'll also chime in as a Fusion customer who really wants OpenGL support. I need Fusion primarily for two apps: Outlook and Pro/E (a popular 3D CAD program similar to SolidWorks). Outlook runs great on Fusion. Pro/E, on the other hand, is not very usable and I believe that this is largely due to a lack of OpenGL support. Running Pro/E on Fusion 1.1 is similar to running it on Parallels 2.5 - it works, but is not really usable for real-world design work (sample video if anyone's interested: http://rohjuh.com/2007/01/06/proe-on-parallels/ ). Parallels 3.0 added OpenGL support and there was indeed quite an improvement in Pro/E performance, although certain glitches made it still unusable (at least for me).

I agree with MacSolidWorks. DirectX support is really just for games. OpenGL enables people to get real work done. Seeing that VMware is primarily an enterprise-oriented company, I am surprised that OpenGL support is not being given a higher priority over DirectX.

Reply
0 Kudos
getwired
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Yes, I would agree with you normally, but there are programs such as SolidWorks that do not have a corresponding Mac version. Therein lies the rub, since Mac is already OpenGL why is it such a hassle for VMware to get it going? For Pete's sake, they've had almost a full year and still there's no experimental support for OpenGL.

This DirectX crap is really just for game support for all intents and purposes. Having used both Fusion and Parallels, VMware is wasting it's time trying to compete with Parallels on the game compatibility. Leave the toys to Parallels, and let Fusion rule the enterprise world.

<br><br><br><br><br>Those who say it cannot be done shouldn't interrupt the people doing it.

Hmm... I'd have to disagree. Getting DirectX support in is a key feature to moving significant numbers of Windows users off of physical PC's and onto Mac's running Windows under Fusion. The games my not be your thing - they aren't mine either - but that's the key to success to getting those users working under Fusion, IMHO.

As to competing with Parallels - frankly Fusion is missing a few features, but is light years ahead as far as quality - but they need to match or exceed the real features promised by Parallels too... and unless there is a compelling list of OpenGL apps that are gating a significant number of sales of Fusion from happening (that don't have Mac ports), then DX makes more sense to prioritize, IMHO.

My $0.02

Reply
0 Kudos
Henry_D
Contributor
Contributor

Here's another plea for Open GL...I have Fusion installed but won't use it until it has Open GL. I am an Architect and use Revit which without Open GL is slow as molasses when working in 3D.

Reply
0 Kudos
rxm
Contributor
Contributor

I would love to dump my Dell in the trash. All I need is adequate graphics performance in Solidworks. Vmware Fusion performed reliably for me in all respects except the graphic update when rotating assemblies in solidworks. Also the solidworks realview display would be excellent. Please save me from the PC. I am awaiting openGL support in vmware.

Reply
0 Kudos
luc_j_bourhis
Contributor
Contributor

I would like to add my plea for OpenGL in Fusion, for Windows and Linux. I am developing cross-platform applications and VMWare fusion is a great tool for that. I especially like the speed of shared folders which lets me keep my source code tree in one directory on the mac side which I share in read-only mode with the Windows side. However the lack of OpenGL drivers taking advantage of all the features of my graphic card means that the virtual machine is a very poor testing bed for my OpenGL code. I am not talking about speed here but about the almost total lack of support for any moder OpenGL extensions especially on Windows.

Reply
0 Kudos
neilford
Contributor
Contributor

There is already some support. I am running Maya and Studio Max under OpenGl. I don't know if this is using any

hardware on my GFX card.

neilford

Reply
0 Kudos
luc_j_bourhis
Contributor
Contributor

You are correct that OpenGL programs do run indeed. But without hardware acceleration. There are programs to probe the OpenGL drivers, wglinfo on Windows and glxinfo on Linux. They clearly report that there is no hardware acceleration. E.g. wglinfo prints:

OpenGL vendor string: Microsoft Corporation

OpenGL renderer string: GDI Generic

OpenGL version string: 1.1.0

OpenGL extensions (GL_):

GL_WIN_swap_hint, GL_EXT_bgra, GL_EXT_paletted_texture.

For comparison, here is the printout on Parallels Desktop, which features OpenGL hardware acceleration. Hence my starting claim.

OpenGL vendor string: Parallels Inc. & NVIDIA Corporation

OpenGL renderer string: ParallelS over NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT OpenGL Engine

OpenGL version string: 2.0 NVIDIA-1.5.18

OpenGL extensions (GL_):

GL_ARB_depth_texture, GL_ARB_draw_buffers, GL_ARB_fragment_program,

GL_ARB_fragment_program_shadow, GL_ARB_fragment_shader, GL_ARB_imaging,

GL_ARB_multisample, GL_ARB_multitexture, GL_ARB_occlusion_query,

GL_ARB_pixel_buffer_object, GL_ARB_point_parameters, GL_ARB_point_sprite,

GL_ARB_shader_objects, GL_ARB_shader_texture_lod,

GL_ARB_shading_language_100, GL_ARB_shadow, GL_ARB_texture_border_clamp,

GL_ARB_texture_compression, GL_ARB_texture_cube_map, GL_ARB_texture_env_add,

GL_ARB_texture_env_combine, GL_ARB_texture_env_crossbar,

GL_ARB_texture_env_dot3, GL_ARB_texture_float,

GL_ARB_texture_mirrored_repeat, GL_ARB_texture_rectangle,

GL_ARB_transpose_matrix, GL_ARB_vertex_blend, GL_ARB_vertex_buffer_object,

GL_ARB_vertex_program, GL_ARB_vertex_shader, GL_ARB_window_pos,

GL_ATI_separate_stencil, GL_ATI_texture_env_combine3, GL_ATI_texture_float,

GL_ATI_texture_mirror_once, GL_EXT_abgr, GL_EXT_bgra, GL_EXT_blend_color,

GL_EXT_blend_equation_separate, GL_EXT_blend_func_separate,

GL_EXT_blend_minmax, GL_EXT_blend_subtract, GL_EXT_clip_volume_hint,

GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array, GL_EXT_depth_bounds_test,

GL_EXT_draw_range_elements, GL_EXT_fog_coord, GL_EXT_framebuffer_object,

GL_EXT_gpu_program_parameters, GL_EXT_multi_draw_arrays,

GL_EXT_packed_depth_stencil, GL_EXT_rescale_normal, GL_EXT_secondary_color,

GL_EXT_shadow_funcs, GL_EXT_stencil_two_side, GL_EXT_stencil_wrap,

GL_EXT_texture_compression_dxt1, GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc,

GL_EXT_texture_env_add, GL_EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic,

GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias, GL_EXT_texture_mirror_clamp,

GL_EXT_texture_rectangle, GL_EXT_texture_sRGB, GL_IBM_rasterpos_clip,

GL_NV_blend_square, GL_NV_depth_clamp, GL_NV_fog_distance,

GL_NV_fragment_program2, GL_NV_fragment_program_option,

GL_NV_light_max_exponent, GL_NV_multisample_filter_hint, GL_NV_point_sprite,

GL_NV_register_combiners, GL_NV_register_combiners2,

GL_NV_texgen_reflection, GL_NV_texture_shader, GL_NV_texture_shader2,

GL_NV_texture_shader3, GL_NV_vertex_program2_option, GL_NV_vertex_program3,

GL_SGIS_generate_mipmap, GL_SGIS_texture_edge_clamp, GL_SGIS_texture_lod.

Reply
0 Kudos
neilford
Contributor
Contributor

It may be true that parallels supports hardware opengl, but they are doing something wrong. When I run maya in parallels, there is a problem with re-drawing the viewports. I get a black viewport. It looks like a double buffering problem I used to encounter in the old days. Back then, I could turn off the double buffering and the problem would cease. This does not happen in vmware fusion.

neilford

Reply
0 Kudos
luc_j_bourhis
Contributor
Contributor

I did not mean to advertise Parallels Desktop: it's just that this was the closest Windows machine with OpenGL hardware acceleration I have access to on a Saturday!

I have got my share of problems with OpenGL in Parallels too: the 3D scene displayed by a program written by one of my collaborators looks as if the lights were turned off. It does not happen with Fusion. Seems like the same story every time: Parallels gets a feature to market first but quite a bit shaky while VMWare takes longer to implement it but then it's rock solid.

Reply
0 Kudos
neilford
Contributor
Contributor

luc,

I started with parallels. I had to stay with 2.5 because OpenGL worked, slowly, in 2.5. 3.0 broke the OpenGL. I switched to VMware at that time was was much more satisfied with the quality. I have tried, from time to time, new builds from Parallels, but they still have not fixed this, fundamental, problem. Both are advertising DirectX3D compatibility, but I have very little use for this Microsoft offering. it doesn't even work well on my "native" PC. I figure they will get it, eventually. For now, VMware solves my OpenGL issues;-)

neilford

Reply
0 Kudos
dp_fusion
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Wish I could remember where I read this, but the move is toward hardware passthru vs emulation. This will probably create some either/or situations with virtual machines, but it looked like interesting technology. This happens, apparently, at the chipset level, and not at the software level very much like Intel virtualization. If it can be made sufficiently seamless it would be a pretty decent solution. If this is so and pending I wouldn't expect a lot of coin to be spent doing a pure software alternative.

Reply
0 Kudos
bcoffe
Contributor
Contributor

Just to add my 2 cents to this thread: My software development team develops primarily for Linux and Solaris platforms. This, and a number of other reasons, makes Mac OS X (especially Leopard) a far more natural fit for a desktop computer than a Windows PC does (not that I have anything against windows, think .NET is pretty cool). Combining Leopard features (especially spaces) with Fusion makes for the best development sandbox I have ever worked with.

The only problem being that one of the applications we are developing is an OpenGL based application for Linux. While we have a number of work arounds (bootcamp, native mac development) it would be far nicer if VMware Fusion supported hardware acceleration for Linux, out-of-the-box. So that we could test our applications on the linux and solaris OSes in VMware fusion without having to dig up a box to test these on.

And I would really like to be able to run VMware Workstation inside a Virtual Vista machine running in VMware Fusion.

Specs of our developer boxes for the curious:

Mac OS X Leopard 10.5.2

Dual- Xeon Quad Core 3.0 GHz

16GB DDR2 RAM

1 TB Internal Drive.

1 TB External USB Drive for Time Machine.

24-30" HD Monitors

And we regularly run 5 to 6 Virtual Machines all at once inside of this environment (plus the host of course) without any noticeable lag. Some of our RedHat VM's are even running Oracle 10g.

Reply
0 Kudos
admin
Immortal
Immortal

And I would really like to be able to run VMware Workstation inside a Virtual Vista machine running in VMware Fusion.

That should work (well, Vista is rather heavyweight, and virtualization-in-virtualization is slow, so you'll be hit twice), just use the normal method of running a nested guest (i.e. use the VT monitor and turn off the backdoor).

Reply
0 Kudos
bcoffe
Contributor
Contributor

While this is probably getting off topic, I would really like to know how to do this. When I run the VMware Workstation Installer inside Fusion I get a message saying, "Sorry, this product cannot be installed inside a virtual machine."

Have you got this to work? If so what are the exact steps to get it to work?

Reply
0 Kudos
admin
Immortal
Immortal

While the virtual machine is powered off and Fusion is not running, add the following lines to the .vmx config file:

monitor_control.restrict_backdoor = "TRUE"
monitor_control.vt32 = "TRUE"

The first is needed to install/run Workstation, the second is needed for any hope of reasonable performance (keep your expectations reasonable, however). If you need help finding the .vmx config file, see .

Reply
0 Kudos
bcoffe
Contributor
Contributor

Yes, that does seem to work. Thanks! It does however keep the unity and full screen features from working properly. It also keeps you from dragging and dropping files from the the Virtual machine to the host machine. In order to fix these things I installed VMware workstation with the flags set as you suggested. After it was installed I shutdown the virtual machine and put the .vmx file back to the way it was and rebooted the virtual machine. Vmware workstation seems to still be working.

Reply
0 Kudos