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rachel
Contributor
Contributor

New Mac Mini Server: Can't install OSX Server guest

Hardware: Mac Mini Server mid-2010

Host OS: Mac OS X Server 10.6.4

VMWare Fusion 3.1.1

Guest: Mac OS X Server install image

I'm running into a brick wall trying to install Mac OS X Server as a guest OS in a Mac OS X Server host, which I understand is supposed to be possible and allowed. ie: I'm not trying to get around anything here except stuff just not working right. Smiley Happy

Freshly installed Mac OX X Server machine, Freshly installed VMWare Fusion. This machine is destined for a colo centre soon. While I don't need a virtual OSX server immediately, I need to know now if I can install it from an image later, so trying to do it now for a test. It has to be from an image for two reasons: 1: When I want to do it for real, the machine will be in its colo centre and physically inaccessible; 2: In any case the machine doesn't have an optical drive so that method is out of the question anyway.

First problem was making an install image that booted at all and didn't just stop at the Ø symbol. I finally did this by using Disk Utility on another Mac to make a new .cdr image based on the optical device the install disk was in, rather than the "Mac OS X Server Install Disc" volume. It now boots in vmware to the OSX installer Choose a Language screen, I choose it, then it gives me:

Mac OS X can't be installed on this computer.

If you want to restore your system from a Time Machine backup, click "Restore from Backup". And the buttons "Restore from Backup" and "Restart".

What doesn't it like? Why won't it install?

I have one guess: The install DVD is the grey install disc that came with the Mac Mini. Could it be that this disk can only be run against real Mac Mini Server hardware, and not the virtual hardware presented by VMWare?

Is there a workaround for this? Or do I need to wait for an update from VMWare that post-dates this hardware? Or is there no hope of a solution?

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rachel
Contributor
Contributor

I just noticed VMWare 3.1.1 has only just come out, so I guess waiting for a version that should be aware of the new mini hardware (if awareness was needed) isn't going to work...

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admin
Immortal
Immortal

The install DVD is the grey install disc that came with the Mac Mini. Could it be that this disk can only be run against real Mac Mini Server hardware, and not the virtual hardware presented by VMWare?

Yes. Versions of OS X that come bundled with Mac hardware check that they're being installed on the hardware they ship with. Since virtual hardware does not resemble physical hardware, it is normal for such OEM media to fail to install.

Is there a workaround for this? Or do I need to wait for an update from VMWare that post-dates this hardware? Or is there no hope of a solution?

You need to get a retail copy of OS X Server.

Side note: I don't think the OS X Server allows one license to be shared by the host and guest, which sounds like what you were trying to do. Buying a retail copy would also resolve this issue.

Side side note: You don't have to run OS X Server on the host, only in the guest. If you're OK with that, and if your Server key is not tied to the media (I don't think it is) and the EULA doesn't forbid this, you might be able to buy and install OS X client on the host, borrow retail OS X Server media, and install your key in the guest.

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rachel
Contributor
Contributor

The install DVD is the grey install disc that came with the Mac Mini. Could it be that this disk can only be run against real Mac Mini Server hardware, and not the virtual hardware presented by VMWare?

Yes. Versions of OS X that come bundled with Mac hardware check that they're being installed on the hardware they ship with. Since virtual hardware does not resemble physical hardware, it is normal for such OEM media to fail to install.

Bah humbug. Smiley Happy

Is there a workaround for this? Or do I need to wait for an update from VMWare that post-dates this hardware? Or is there no hope of a solution?

You need to get a retail copy of OS X Server.

Side note: I don't think the OS X Server allows one license to be shared by the host and guest, which sounds like what you were trying to do. Buying a retail copy would also resolve this issue.

Ah, that would put a dampener on things. No, I hadn't appreciated that was the case; I had thought the license covered virtual machines on the same physical server, though I admit that's merely an impression gleaned rather than from careful reading of the license. Smiley Happy

Side side note: You don't have to run OS X Server on the host, only in the guest. If you're OK with that, and if your Server key is not tied to the media (I don't think it is) and the EULA doesn't forbid this, you might be able to buy and install OS X client on the host, borrow retail OS X Server media, and install your key in the guest.

Ugh no. I'll just make do with Server only on the host. It was my main plan anyway, with the ability to run it in vmware as well as a "nice to have" I might have found useful in the future. As it is there's probably going to be at least one or two linux VMs in there to be getting on with, for sandboxing stuff.

In fact, as presumably the only upgrade path to 10.7 Server when it comes out is from buying a retail copy, I could presumably install that in vmware and keep the current 10.6 install on the host, thereafter only used as a shell for running vmware... It would probably make the upgrade path smoother, frankly. Smiley Happy

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admin
Immortal
Immortal

Ah, that would put a dampener on things. No, I hadn't appreciated that was the case; I had thought the license covered virtual machines on the same physical server, though I admit that's merely an impression gleaned rather than from careful reading of the license. Smiley Happy

I think the general idea is that each normal virtual machine is a separate install, and so requires a separate license (unless otherwise specified; for example, Windows Server Enterprise covers the host and up to 4 guests). I'd make an exception for Boot Camp (and other raw disk) virtual machines, since they're tied to a partition and can't be moved like a normal virtual machine.

In fact, as presumably the only upgrade path to 10.7 Server when it comes out is from buying a retail copy, I could presumably install that in vmware and keep the current 10.6 install on the host, thereafter only used as a shell for running vmware... It would probably make the upgrade path smoother, frankly. Smiley Happy

Yep, upgrades are easy when you don't have to actually upgrade Smiley Happy The thing to be aware of in this case is that the host will eventually left behind in terms of software updates, so make sure it's locked down as possible.

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edwardre
Contributor
Contributor

Hello,

I am using a just purchased retail copy of Snow Leopard Server to install under VMware fusion 3.1.2 but I get the message from Snow Leopard Server Installation saying it will not install on the virtual hardware!

I would have thought it was VMware's job to make the virtual hardware similar to real hardware to allow the guest OS to run and install properly.

The hardware I use to run VMware Fusion 3.1.2 is original Apple Mac Pro Xeon and an Apple Mac Pro core i7 which are both proper Apple Mac servers and workstation.

Can anyone advice what to do?

thanks

Edward

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SvenGus
Expert
Expert

First problem was making an install image that booted at all and didn't just stop at the Ø symbol. I finally did this by using Disk Utility on another Mac to make a new .cdr image based on the optical device the install disk was in, rather than the "Mac OS X Server Install Disc" volume.

That is good news! BTW, I, too, had never been able to make a "VM-bootable" .cdr or .dmg of a Mac OS X install DVD.

As for installing a machine-sepcific version of OS X Server into a new Fusion VM, personally I had success with this method (part 2):

http://hints.macworld.com/article.php?story=20101220034435995

It should work also from within a Mac OS X Server host (even if I only tried it from within a Mac OS X client host)...

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SvenGus
Expert
Expert

You don't have to run OS X Server on the host, only in the guest. If you're OK with that, and if your Server key is not tied to the media (I don't think it is) and the EULA doesn't forbid this, you might be able to buy and install OS X client on the host, borrow retail OS X Server media, and install your key in the guest.

I can confirm that, for example, the mid-2010 Mac mini Server OS X Server key works perfectly in a Fusion VM: so, it's not tied to the specific machine.

Thus, transferring the server OS to a VM (or even virtualizing it from a physical disk) and running a separately licensed OS X client as the host should be perfectly "legal".

And, with the method of installing directly onto the mounted .vmdk, one should not even need to borrow retail media: with this method, you install from within your specific machine, but just onto another (virtual) disk.

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edwardre
Contributor
Contributor

Hello,

Thanks for your kind replies. I really like the idea of mounting the vmdk image so I can install directly under Mac OS and not within the VMware fusion VM.

However, I am having issues mounting the vmdk (and I also tried with different vmdk's of other VM's I have)!

I get "The VMware fuse daemon failed to start"  !

I am running the latest versions of all the below:-

Snow Leopard 10.6.6 native OS on Mac Pro core i7, 12 gigs of ram.

VMware Fusion Version 3.1.2 (332101)

MacFUSE 2.0.3

Would someone know what the issue is?  How do I know MacFUSE is doing the job? Also, my Mac OS is running in 64 bit mode and I notice MacFUSE is running in 32-bit, could this be the issue?

Thank you heaps

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edwardre
Contributor
Contributor

Hi All,

I got it working mounting the vmdk disk in native Mac OS and installing using the Terminal!

It's am amazing technique to be able to use a virtual disk directly from the host OS.

I forgot to mention that Macfuse does not run in 64 bit Snow Leopard Server, so I had to boot Snow Leopard in 32bit and after that the mounting and installation of server went like a breeze.

thanks all for your valuable support

Ed

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WoodyZ
Immortal
Immortal

edwardre wrote: I forgot to mention that Macfuse does not run in 64 bit Snow Leopard Server, so I had to boot Snow Leopard in 32bit and after that the mounting and installation of server went like a breeze.

This is a known issue and is in the Device Issues section of Known Issues in the VMware Fusion 3.0 Release Notes EN


  • You cannot mount a virtual disk on a virtual machine in a Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard host with 64-bit kernel.
    If you try to use VMDKMounter on a 64-bit kernel Mac OS X 10.6 host, you get an alert stating The VMware fuse daemon failed to start. Currently, MacFUSE does not work with 64-bit kernels.

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edwardre
Contributor
Contributor

THANK YOU FOR YOUR GREAT SUPPORT ALL CONTRUBUTORS!

Now it would be lovely if I could get the vm to run in 64bit mode.

I wonder if this is possible, any ideas?

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admin
Immortal
Immortal

Hi rachel,

You nailed the solution with your guess:

I have one guess: The install DVD is the grey install disc that came with the Mac Mini. Could it be that this disk can only be run against real Mac Mini Server hardware, and not the virtual hardware presented by VMWare?

Is there a workaround for this? Or do I need to wait for an update from VMWare that post-dates this hardware? Or is there no hope of a solution?

The workaround is to use a retail disc, not a machine-specific one. It looks like the DVDs sell for $15 from the Apple store online: http://store.apple.com/us_smb_78313/product/MC590ZM/A?n=osx&fnode=MTY1NDAzOA&mco=MTc0Nzk1NzI&s=topSe.... (This assumes you have another seat/license available, but I'll let you work that out with Apple.)

Stephen Gardner

Desktop Technical Support Specialist

VMware Inc.

http://kb.vmware.com

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edwardre
Contributor
Contributor

Hi Stephen,

I use only retail Snow Leopard and Snow Leopard Server for my experiments and in my opinion they are not installing and running as 64 bit kernel because the guest OS installer and kernel believe the hardware is NOT 64 bit capable. In other words they cannot detect a cpu that is 64 bit capable. (core i7, Xeon etc. etc)

Can someone from VMware explain what CPU information is available to the guest VM?

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admin
Immortal
Immortal

My apologies, I only saw rachel's original post and nothing else when I first responded yesterday ... I'm not sure what happened there, but I didn't mean to overlook your question!

To the best of my knowledge, Fusion should be presenting a 64-bit-capable CPU. In my Mac OS X Server VM, the processor name (one way I usually idenitfiy whether it's 64-bit-capable) is missing, but the System Software Overview says that 64-bit Kernel and Extensions are enabled, and almost all of the processes in Activity Monitor are running in 64-bit mode.

I've asked someone else from VMware to step in and give you a more definitive answer, if possible.

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admin
Immortal
Immortal

My colleagues tell me that this has been addressed in your other thread: http://communities.vmware.com/thread/301144

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SvenGus
Expert
Expert

I forgot to say that, if you install directly onto the mounted VMDK from within Mac OS X, there will be a new Mac OS X Server entry in your install history, which can be seen in the Software Update System Preferences panel.

If you don't want it, you can edit the /Library/Receipts/InstallHistory.plist file (taking care to restore its original permissions afterwards, if necessary).

... I agree: it is great to be able to install also in this way!

BTW, in Parallels Desktop this is not possible, as the virtual hard drive doesn't seem to be preformatted, and (IIRC) anyway would be mounted as a network drive rather than a local one: but that's rather irrelevant, as Parallels Desktop allows to install in the ordinary way - no special messages appear - also with machine-specific DVDs (don't know how they manage to do this...).

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