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A_Smythe
Contributor
Contributor

More than One Windows OS

I have a licensed Windows XP Pro install loaded up via BootCamp on a partitioned portion of my harddrive. There are a minimal number of programs installed on this. I seem to recall somewhere that this was the recommended approach for Fusion 1, which is why I have done this; I have since installed Fusion 2.0.1.

I have also noticed that there is a program provided by VMWare that allows for the migration of a complete Windows install from a PC to a Mac. This install uses a separate WinXP license from the WinXP currently on my Mac. It is desirable for me to do this second install of WinXP with a separate license as it allow the migration of my programs with their licenses as well as documents.

So, my question is this: is it possible to be able to migrate over the PC WinXP so that I can have a choice as to which of two VM WinXP machines I boot into without the one impacting/corrupting the other?

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Uncle_Art
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

VMware Converter does not bypass any Windows registration/activation mechanisms.

In addition, any Windows OS or Application "activation scheme" that is "looking for" hardware changes WILL be triggered by the move from a "Real" PC to a "Virtual" machine, even if the conversion is done via VMware Converter or Importer.

And, more on point to the actual title of your post: You can run as many instances of as many flavors of Windows as you have licenses for, as long as you have drive space to put them on.

In short, sure, you can move your "existing" PC over to Fusion, as a New virtual Machine, running separately from any other machine you may have already set up. But, unless it's a Windows Volume License install, it WILL recognize it's on new Hardware, and it WILL require reactivation. As will any applications that get upset if they detect they're on "new hardware".

Activation and/or licensing, and/or convincing the mfg that you're really only running three instances of their application on one computer... that's gonna be between you and them.

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jonric
Contributor
Contributor

Read your post on the activation key. That is happening to me right now and neither Microsoft nor Dell are cooperating with providing me the activation key. Is there a way to by-pass this issue when converting a machine over?

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WoodyZ
Immortal
Immortal

Read your post on the activation key. That is happening to me right now and neither Microsoft nor Dell are cooperating with providing me the activation key. Is there a way to by-pass this issue when converting a machine over?

Windows Product Activation or any other products activation is not the responsibility of VMware and the only answer to your question is for you to talk to Microsoft or whatever manufacturer's product you're having activation issue with.

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A_Smythe
Contributor
Contributor

I think that we can all agree that this is not the responsibility of VMWare.

However, this is a forum in which people are searching for answers to problems that fall outside the "norm".

So, as VMWare does offer the possibility of migrating from a physical PC to a VM environment for one's Windows' machine, has anyone out there come across/suggest/have insight into a strategy/approach to the questions being asked of jonric and myself?

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Uncle_Art
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

As to your original question:

"So, my question is this: is it possible to be able to migrate over the PC WinXP so that I can have a choice as to which of two VM WinXP machines I boot into without the one impacting/corrupting the other?"

Yes, absolutely. Run converter, take the file it outputs, and make a new Virtual machine using it as the source. As I mentioned, it will likely require activation, but this will not in any way affect any other existing Virtual Machine you may already have. You can run as many different Virtual Machines as you have harddrive space for, and the Licensing or Activation Status of any one should have nothing at all to do with that of another.

As to there being a way to "bypass" the activation? No. Not unless the installation is from a "Volume License Edition", which does not require activation.

As to Microsoft refusing an activation: Again, no way I know to legitimately get around this, without maybe just calling at a different time, and hoping for a different rep on the phone. But, if they say "Sorry, that license cannot be transferred", you're out of luck. (That's one of the primary reasons OEM licenses are so cheap on line... they're restricted. You don't think, say, Dell, pays Retail for Windows? And likewise, for the break the OEM's get, MS "Limits" the scope of that license.)

There's really no way to "Virtualize" hardware without tripping the Windows Activation mechanism. The hardware's different, and Windows is going to detect that.

Of course there are ways around anything. If any of these mechanisms worked perfectly, there would be no pirated software. But the terms of this forum, for understandable legal and ethical reasons, preclude discussing, encouraging, or revealing such methods, or their possible sources.

So, yes to the first question, and "No" to the others...

-art

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asatoran
Immortal
Immortal

I think that we can all agree that this is not the responsibility of VMWare.

However, this is a forum in which people are searching for answers to problems that fall outside the "norm".

So, as VMWare does offer the possibility of migrating from a physical PC to a VM environment for one's Windows' machine, has anyone out there come across/suggest/have insight into a strategy/approach to the questions being asked of jonric and myself?

Remove vitrualization for a minute. Suppose you want to upgrade your machine. You want to buy a new motherboard and video card, but reuse your existing hard drive so that you don't have to reinstall all your applications. In doing so, Windows will ask for reactivation. Now if your original machine was an OEM, (i.e.: Dell) and the new motherboard is a retail unit. (i.e.: not a Dell motherboard, but a MSI brand bought from Newegg.) because your original license of Windows is an OEM copy, it lives and dies with that original equipment. So Dell (or whoever) will not be able to help you get Windows reactivated. Not only because you're installing to non Dell equipment, but because you're violating the OEM Windows license.

Now replace the brand of motherboard from MSI to VMWare, since when you convert to a virtual machine, for all intent an purposes to Windows, you've replaced the motherboard, video card, sound card, etc. But still no difference in the Windows OEM licensing. You can't transfer the license so it is no surprise that Dell and VMWare can't (won't) help you get your converted Windows reactivated.

Now, to answer your question specifically, the "strategy" is to aquire a valid license for Windows that you can install and activate. In all likelyhood, if you don't know what kind of license your currently have, it probably means you'll need to buy another one. If you can do a clean install with this new copy of Windows, then you're good to go. But that wasn't really "converting" your existing machine. So if you simply MUST convert your existing OEM copy of Windows (or other non-re-activatable instance of Windows) then you need to do a repair install by using Converter to convert your Windows to a VM, then boot with your vaild copy of the Windows installer disk so that the appropriate files are replaced with your "activatable" Windows files. A repair install should be done with the same version of Windows as the original. (i.e.: if your Dell has XP32-Pro, then you want a retail or volume-license copy of XP32-Pro.) As much as possible, I prefer a clean install rather than a repair install.

WoodyZ
Immortal
Immortal

However, this is a forum in which people are searching for answers to problems that fall outside the "norm".

So, as VMWare does offer the possibility of migrating from a physical PC to a VM environment for one's Windows' machine, has anyone out there come across/suggest/have insight into a strategy/approach to the questions being asked of jonric and myself?

Let me say it again since you seem not to get it... OEM Windows is not transferable and if you have a problem transferring an OEM version of Windows then contact Microsoft! But as you have already found out neither Dell or Microsoft is will to help you circumvent the Licensing!

VMware vCenter Converter is not intended to circumvent OEM Licensing! If you happen to have a Retail or Volume Licensing version of Windows then by all mean use the free VMware vCenter Converter to convert a Physical PC that has a legally transferable version of Windows and if WPA is required it is best if you adjust virtual hardware settings before running the Virtual Machine for the first time and install VMware Tools first if possible before activating Windows otherwise you will most likely have to activate it again. The bottom line is with legally transferable version of Windows that require activation one typically will have a 3 day grace period upon modifying the hardware to the point that activation is required and the ones like OEM which are not legally transferable typically require immediate activation and you can do nothing until it's activated so in either case contact Microsoft if online activation fails!

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A_Smythe
Contributor
Contributor

Well, clearly WoodyZ does not get it and, allow me to say it again as he doesn't seem to get it: there is no intent to circumvent anything. And, until now, no, I did not know the not-to-subtle limitation with OEM licensing, as I never have had to attempt the transfer of a software license from one machine to another. So, thank you WoodyZ for demonstrating your great insight and patience in explaining things. May I suggest that, if you are unable to explain things without the attitude for an honestly asked technical question, then perhaps you may need consider demonstrating your great prowess on the subject on some other site with others having a similiarly intolerant bent.

Now, onto a more serious note, thank you asatoran. Your explanation does provide greater insight into the real issue. I do have a retail license for Windows and so your suggested strategy of bringing over an OEM licensed machine appears to be the way to go. Have you tried this yourself or do you know of someone who has? Was it fairly "pain free" or did it require an enormous investment of time and effort with a great deal of troubleshooting?

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WoodyZ
Immortal
Immortal

Well to use your own words... Well, clearly A Smythe does not get it and, allow me to say it again as he/she doesn't seem to get it: Because if A Smythe actually got it he/she would have searched the Forum and found that the question being asked has already been asked and answered dozens of times and would not need to have asked the question again.

As to asatoran's "strategy" from a technical perspective it can but not alway will work and there are various factors which I'm not going to waste time getting into because the very act of transferring the OEM build to another system regardless of what you do to it after the fact is not permissible as that OEM install live and dies with the original system it was installed on therefore the subject is mute. If it is a Retail or Volume License version then by all means it can be transfered and in some cases even with the transfer one may have to do a repair install although that is not the norm and does not always resolve issues.

The bottom line is Clean Building a Virtual Machine will always yield the best performance and be less problematic overall then Converting/Importing by any methods.

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asatoran
Immortal
Immortal

...Have you tried this yourself or do you know of someone who has? Was it fairly "pain free" or did it require an enormous investment of time and effort with a great deal of troubleshooting?

I have done this. I have helped others do this. I offer the procedure only because it is a possibility. However, as has been stated. It is not always successful. This is often due to the the provious drivers or applications being too incompatible with the new hardware. (IOW, BSoD and can't boot to Safe Mode to fix.) Somefimes possible to fix, but in my experience, the amount of time "saved" is zero or less. And you often have an unstable system afterward. So as has been stated, best to do a clean install as much as possible. In the long run, you are almost certainly better off. It is normally recommended that one should do a clean install of an existing system every once in a while anyway. So I almost never do a P2V conversion on production systems. Only for creating test environments or for critical hardware failures on production servers. Workstations in production don't get P2Ved, Your needs will vary, of couse, but basically I recommend you buy your license for Windows, but don't use it "fix" your OEM conversion. As much as possible just install a new virtual machine and go through the trouble of reinstalling the apps.

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A_Smythe
Contributor
Contributor

Thx! Again, appreciative of your opinion borne from experience.

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jonric
Contributor
Contributor

Thanks for the advice on what to do w/ liscensing. I called microsoft again and told them I was moving my windows over to mac because my computer had crashed. The gentleman I spoke to was most helpful. He gave me a new key and stayed on the phone while I activated it.

The one problem I did have was installing sequel server. After I bumped up the memory allotment to a gig, it installed fine. Additionly, I used the convertor on one of the machines. It did transfer after I got a new key; but, it will not connect to the network even in bridge mode. That said, the two that I did a clean install of windows on worked perfectly

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