Is it now safe to take the Fusion 1.1.1 plunge?

[lugesm]

I have been using Fusion 1.1 and have not experienced any problems.

First, a comment: I LOVE THIS FUSION PROGRAM. It just works !

I know that 1.1.1 is available, but as they say . . . . If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Having written that, I wonder if I am missing something and might run into problems in the future with 1.1; perhaps I should move to 1.1.1.

My reluctance and my question are a result of all the negative items I have seen posted about 1.1.1. Were these anomalies or general issues?

Would appreciate user comments.

Thanks.

L

SYSTEM: iMac 24" Aluminum, 2.4GHZ, 3GB memory, Leopard 10.5.2, Fusion 1.1, WindowsXP Home Edition with all updates.

[thf]

Hi...

No one can say "you won't have any problems - go ahead!"

But I personally have had no problems at all. Not with Windows XP Pro, nor with Linux (redhat and kubuntu).

As to "all the negative items" you see here, remember that "all the people you see in the doctor's office are sick". Similarly, the thousands and thousands of users who have no problems at all do not post messages here, only the users who "are sick", who have some sort of issue with the program, with their computer, with other software and it's interaction with Fusion, etc.

1.1.1 does seem faster to me, but it doesn't have any new features I absolutely must have.

Should you upgrade? Up to you.

Tom

[Gangee]

We lost 3 hours today when one of my guys installed 1.1.1. It's still not right. Try calling tech support? Yeah, right. What tech support?

If you read the board, most here have had problems with 1.1.1. Now, soon comes the post, "Yeah, but people don't post when things are going good". Yeah? I wouldn't post either, but today, I blew a fuse. Time is money.

I know what these guys are doing is not an easy task. But that's no excuse to put out buggy software.

Ducking now...

[thf]

Hi...

most here have had problems with 1.1.1

My point, exactly.

We lost 3 hours today when one of my guys installed 1.1.1

Would you have time to post a few details?

Tom

[Gangee]

Good morning,

First, in no way should anyone who's reading this interpret my comments as anything else but my view and experiences. I now have a way to run Windows on a Mac, that's great.

But this product, in my opinion (I've been an owner of high technology companies since 1991) (of course it's my opinion, who's else would it be? grins:) is not ready for prime time.

If I was to install Fusion for everyone in my office, I'd lose money. Because, I'd lose valuable development time with my people dealing with weird Fusion issues; sound issues (programmers like to play games), connectivity issues, to name some. Instead, I just won't allow them to use it. Not because I'm some kind of software Nazi, but because I'm a small company and I just can't afford dayz when someone tells me, "Sorry, dude. My Fusion is down. I got to deal with that now". Or, having to spend a few hours a week helping my sales guys (sales people are typically decent with technology, but they're not power users) deal with Fusion.

I just don't believe this product is ready for anyone else but power users and programmers at this point. Now, these guys have this forum and I basically knew that coming in. Before pulling the trigger on a Mac, I lurked on the forum to see what I was up against. It was real clear to me this isn't plug and pray software, that most likely, I'd need help just installing it. I was comfortable with the risk, so I jumped in.

What bothers me about these guys is that they just don't seem to give a hoot about their customers. And, I think with Fusion anyway, they give the illusion it's something that it's not. They advertise tech support. Mossberg says it works great. They have fancy packaging, you see their ads on mainstream websites, they have a fancy website. They're a publicly held company. So, the general impression Joe Blow computer user gets is, "Works great, solid company".

"Not so fast, Run Windows on a Mac breath".

What tech support? At best, I think they're smug about it. As I've noted in earlier posts, I bought a pack of support when I purchased Fusion. At this point, I don't even bother trying to use it. I dunno, maybe they used my money for coffee? When I did try to use it, no one got back to me. They're certainly not using my money for phone lines. Ever try calling them? I'm in computer telephony. I think they designed the phone system so they don't have to talk to anyone. I also think that companies that don't pick up the phone and talk to customers are not doing business the right way -- "Well just use email, it's free!". Jeez, guys. Charge me more if you have to. If I pay you another 20 bucks for Fusion will you answer the freaking phone? So, I just don't install anything new (like 1.1.1), I back up daily, I have guys in my office I rely on when something goes wrong. When it doesn't start I just pray I don't have to start over. So far, so good. I've always been saved by the tried and true power button, or the three finger salute.

Hmm. The number 1 tech support he/she/it is etung, who doesn't even work for the company?

Works great? Eh, maybe for someone who only uses Windows a few times a day. But if you rely on Windows, we do, we're a .NET shop, this is beta software -- on it's best day. It crashes a lot, weird things happen like sound quits working. The only view I've found to be reliable is "Full screen". Yesterday one of my guys installed 1.1.1, he couldn't run Fusion. Are you kidding me? Tell me real world software where you install an upgrade and the product becomes not useable. This hasn't happened to us since the old NT days, when you'd install a service pack and have to reinstall the OS. Been there, done that. We all went to rehab, those are the old days. Software should be good now. I'm paying you for your stuff, Mossberg says it works great. You have fancy packaging, your ads are all over the web. Either put out great software that's reliable, or start calling it what it is -- beta software.

10-4

[admin]

Gangee, I'm sorry you have had problems with 1.1.1 and getting support. It's hard to judge how widespread the problems with 1.1.1 are based only on reports of problems (and not successes), but I think that 1.1.1 is generally good and that the problem reports are (relatively common) outliers. For what it's worth, 1.1.1 works fine for me (and the other developers). We are working on resolving the known issues.

What tech support? At best, I think they're smug about it. As I've noted in earlier posts, I bought a pack of support when I purchased Fusion. At this point, I don't even bother trying to use it. I dunno, maybe they used my money for coffee? When I did try to use it, no one got back to me. They're certainly not using my money for phone lines. Ever try calling them? I'm in computer telephony. I think they designed the phone system so they don't have to talk to anyone. I also think that companies that don't pick up the phone and talk to customers are not doing business the right way -- "Well just use email, it's free!". Jeez, guys. Charge me more if you have to. If I pay you another 20 bucks for Fusion will you answer the freaking phone?

We don't have phone support for Fusion; it's limited to web-based. This is stated on the support page. The support situation isn't something I like, and I think it's a pretty dumb situation, but I don't think I'm free to say why things are set up this way.

The number 1 tech support he/she/it is etung, who doesn't even work for the company?

I'm a "he", and I do work for VMware, which you can tell by the VMware-three-boxes icon by my username. I'm also on the Fusion team.

lugesm: Regarding whether you should update to 1.1.1, I don't think there's anything particularly critical. On the other hand, I also don't think it should take very long to update and figure out if you're seeing either of the common problems, and reverting to 1.1 should be easy.

[Pat_Lee]

Gangee,

I am sorry to hear about the experience you are having with VMware Fusion. VMware Fusion 1.1 and 1.1.1 are working well for the vast majority of customers. We have seen two regressions in 1.1.1 with regards to sound on the Mac Pro and an occasional crash when typing. We are working on fixes for both of these regressions.

If you have other specific issues, please let us know and we are happy to work with you to better understand and ultimately resolve the issues.

With regards to tech support, we currently offer tech support by e-mail today. In addition, we also provide support in the forums with members of the technical support team and engineering team helping to resolve customer reported issues.

We currently can't offer phone support for Fusion, but I will take your feedback regarding the lack of phone support back to the VMware support management team.

We care a great deal about our customers and providing them the best possible solutions.

Best,

Pat Lee

Group Manager, Consumer Products

VMware

[Gangee]

Good morning Pat,

Here's why I'm so down on this stuff. With email support only, if something goes wrong, it could be a few days before me, or one of my guys, gets back up and running. I've seen too many threads titled, "Help, can't run Fusion", that go with no replies. When that happens to me, I have employees, expensive ones, sitting idle. I just doesn't cut it.

I think it's bunk, that you guys don't have phone support. Yeah, I know that's the condition of doing business with you guys. But I guess I bought the product thinking it was a little bit more stable than it is? My gosh. Someone "upgrades" and their machine goes South?

But Pat. What happens if my machine is so hosed, I can't get on the Internet to check email? Then what? I'm toast, that's what. Is that really how you want to do business? Just because you can, doesn't make it right.

You guys can make every excuse possible, but I'm in the business too. The problem is that somewhere in some conference room someone in white socks is going, "We can't afford it! It's too much hassle!!". I say you can't afford not to.

Either get some more money from the guys on Sand Hill Road, or charge more. Do something.

10-4

[Gangee]

Good morning,

I'll add this.

I'm old school. I still ski with my feet too close together, I still listen to Hendrix (sans the LSD).

In business, customer service is a lost art. I say, customer service is what defines a company. For too long, companies have used phone systems to replace humans. I know, I designed them (still getting over the guilt of it all). Then came the 90's and the dot com brats all figured they didn't need phone lines, they'd just do email. They all figured email was better -- because that's what they did. What they didn't figure, is that what about all the people who don't like to type, or can't type.

I say, we all go back to answering phones, spending money on customer service. I'll put up with funky software, Fusion, so long as I feel like I'm not left out in the cold. I won't do business with anyone, who doesn't answer their phone. I figure if they don't care enough about me to answer their phones, see ya. The reason why I'm down on Fusion is that if something goes wrong, I really am out in the cold. Yeah sure, I might get lucky and etung will bail me out. Or maybe not. Maybe not, is something I'm just not comfortable with.

That's about all I have. Somewhere in all this I'm sure Fusion folks are reading (laughing?), that's about all I can hope for.

10-4

[Pat_Lee]

Gangee,

Your comments are duly noted and we are reading and paying attention to the feedback we get from you and others in the forums.

Best,

Pat Lee

Group Manager, Consumer Products

VMware

[lugesm]

Quote: etung . . .

lugesm: Regarding whether you should update to 1.1.1, I don't think there's anything particularly critical. On the other hand, I also don't think it should take very long to update and figure out if you're seeing either of the common problems, and reverting to 1.1 should be easy.

-

Thanks for your comments. After reading this thread indicating that you are working the known issues, and your point, "don't think there's anything particularly critical," I believe I will just wait until the current issues are resolved.

Thanks again, and keep up the good work. l am extremely pleased with Fusion 1.1 and Windows XP installed under OSX 10.5.2.

[vvegas]

Pat,

Please add me to the list of customers who believe support for Fusion is seriously lacking. I've been using the product since the beta and have twice opened support tickets (once under a beta period, and once during the 30 day window). It took several days to engage a support person and resolve the issue I opened during the support window, which left me without a functioning Windows desktop to access my Corporate network. Needless to say, it was frustrating and affected my productivity.

Since upgrading to 1.1, I have been experiencing a new issue whereby when I suspend the Windows guest and try to bring it back up, it rarely works anymore. http://communities.vmware.com/message/837103

It's still happening after the 1.1.1 update, but aside from this forum, I have no way of getting help from VMWare or even letting the company know of the problem.

I am the one "pilot user" of Fusion in my company to determine if we can use Fusion for all our Mac users in order for them to operate fully virtualized Windows and eliminate the need to have a PC at their desk as well.

In a meeting last week to report my results, I informed the committee that, after more than 6 months of use, the product was good overall, worked with all our corporate apps, required a few tweaks to our corporate desktop image, but performed adequately. I did not see a reason to ever need a physical Windows desktop PC again. But when I did run into problems, the product support was greatly lacking and of fairly low quality when you got it because the issues were not given any type of priority. Therefore, it was not ready for widescale deployment in our organization. We would have to invest heavily in developing our own expertise and doing our own troubleshooting and couldn't count on VMWare for quality support. Whatever cost savings we may have enjoyed from reducing hardware costs by eliminating the physical PC workstation would likely be lost due to the increased cost for having to support and troubleshoot VMWare Fusion and virtual machine problems. Without a reliable support organization to turn to, we had to develop all the expertise in-house. Chances were users experiencing Fusion problems would require significant time and effort to resolve and lead to user dissatsifaction with the product (meaning they would want to go back to having a separate physical PC anyway).

Support is a big deal and, as you can see, lack of it is going to have a negative overall impact to the sales and reputation of the product. These forums are fantastic, but they cannot replace formal product support, especially for business users.

Thanks

[Gangee]

vvegas,

Thanks for that post. I don't how much more evidence Pat and the gang needs, to tell them they need to make some changes. Why this has gone on so long, is beyond me. But having done business in the Valley, I found there's a certain attitude most of them have out there. They just seem to think they walk on water and that customers are mainly a bother. I always got the feeling they stand around with the Peter Norton pose.

Well, I just hope more people start calling these guys on how they operate. Maybe they'll start to demonstrate some humility now.

Thanks again,

10-4

[thf]

Hi...

Those of you complaining about poor support should consider a couple of things...

Fusion has always been a "consumer" product. VMware made it clear at the beginning of Fusion's life that they considered the Mac market a much different one from their usual commercial market. The fact that one can't take multiple snapshots is just one current reminder of this.

While VMware may have excellent support for Fortune 100 companies, I don't think they ever thought they'd offer that level of support to the casual "run a few Windows programs on my Mac" client base. And the profit's probably not there (yet?) for them to hire, train and support a new support staff.

The posters who complain that Fusion support is not of commercial quality are right that it's not, but wrong to expect it to be.

Certainly, if VMware sees sufficient Fusion sales going to the commercial sector, they'd be wise to change their support offering in order to protect and develop that market segment. But do they see such sales?

If you're in a position to purchase several thousand licenses, I'm sure the VMware folks would be happy to talk about support.

And for gosh sakes folks, telling underpaid, overworked, unfailingly courteous support staff here at the forum that VMware's support is lousy is not going to be all that effective. Start with a phone call to headquarters. Number's on the "Contact us" page at vmware.com.

Tom

[Gangee]

thf,

I'd be happy to call them. Problem is, I can't get through. Have you tried?

Regarding support. I disagree.

It'd be one thing if they clearly advertised "Support, but not really". But they don't. They advertise support and the expectation with doing so is just that. Now, the question is, what's the definition of support? In my mind, well, like I say -- I'm old school. I believe in taking care of customers. These guys take care of customers -- but it's at their pace. And clearly, some cases just never get help.

Now, I will agree that in looking around the site they don't exactly make claims of fantastic support.

I figured out before I bought (and cruised the forum) that support was going to be lacking. I didn't just fall off the tomato truck, it was pretty easy to tell that support is not exactly a high priority here. For sure, I knew it was caveat emptor. However I never expected to buy a support pack and not be able to use it. Forget about everything else I wrote. What bothers me is that I'm basically saying, "Hey. I bought your support pack and I still couldn't get a ping from you guys!". No one has contacted me about this. What's the excuse here? Do I still need to feel bad for being a customer?

So on that note, I really will bow out. I don't want to dominate the discussions -- or highjack the thread.

It is what it is.

[lugesm]

Sorry I caused such a firestorm. Not my intent.

Overall I am very happy with Fusion 1.1.

[vvegas]

But why should the status of a product as "consumer" mean that the quality of support should be less than other products? If I purchase Microsoft Office for use at home, I expect the same quality of support as any other Office customer within the terms of the support agreement with the product.

Fusion is part of the Desktop Virtualization family of products from VMWare and thus should be treated the same way as other products in this family.

http://www.vmware.com/support/services/complimentary_support.html compares Fusion and Workstation complimentary support. They are virtually identical until you get to the Target Response Times section. For Workstation, they assign the issue a priority and response times are dictated by this. For Fusion, it's just a blanket 24 hours regardless of severity. There is no committment by VMWare to address your issue in a timely fashion if it is having severe impact to you.

[Pat_Lee]

Gangee, I would like to know more about the specifics of our SR and incident issues. I sent you a private message to get more details so we can follow-up to understand the specific issues and work to correct them.

I appreciate the candor in this thread and I will bring this feedback to the attention of our support management.

With regards to business level support, one area I did not mention earlier as with our enterprise products, Site Support/Maintenance is an available option for customers with 50 or more VMware Fusion licenses. With the purchase of Site Support/Maintenance, you will get updates and upgrades as well as 5x12 phone support to meet your business needs.

Best,

Pat Lee

Group Manager, Consumer Products

VMware

[hassiman]

Tom,

If they didn't expect to support the "run a few windows apps on my Mac" users then they should not be charging for the product.

[Pat_Lee]

We take great pride in VMware Fusion and we do offer technical support in multiple ways for the product from VMware monitored and supported self-support forums, 30-days of complementary web based/e-mail support as part of purchase, additional web-based/e-mail support incidents for purchase, and for business with 50 or more licenses the option to buy a support and maintenance package with upgrades and phone support.

I understand that people would like more support options from this thread and I will elevate that to the support team as part of my role.

In the meantime, we will continue to make sure that our existing support offering work and solve customers problems and where we find problems with the existing offerings work to address them quickly and get customers up and running.

Best,

Pat Lee

Group Manager, Consumer Products

VMware