10.5.7 update graphics issue

[tk1234]

VMWare, thanks for the update regarding it's effect on 3d acceleration with ATI cards. Question: Is 3D accel similarly broken for NVidia cards? I have the Geforce 8800GT.

[WoodyZ]

I guess I'm just frustrated that we didn't have advance notice to not upgrade because of a known issue.

VMware is bound by confidentiality agreements and cannot just release information at will with some issues and certainly one can understand that. Also anyone who has spent any time around computers should know better then to just jump at and update/upgrade just because it's offered the moment it is and should always wait a little while and see what issue and or problems crop up immediately after things are released. You don't have to be the first to get your system trashed so just let others drink the Kool-Aid first.

[ColoradoMarmot]

I'm well aware of those agreements, and I did wait to upgrade. VMWare should have posted a notice the same day as 10.5.7 was released, (I specifically checked to see if there were any notices).

[WoodyZ]

It is my understanding that the notice was posted as soon as it was permissible and besides that how long did you what before upgrading to 10.5.7 after it came out?

[ColoradoMarmot]

I checked with every other major software vendor (and some small ones), and they all had support notices posted the day of release. VMWare was the only one to delay posting (and ironically, the only one with an issue).

[admin]

I posted the announcement in the forums on May 12 as soon as I heard 10.5.7 was out (I believe I was within a few hours of release, we were waiting for it). The blog post was made May 13. In these areas, I think we were pretty responsive.

Now, not mass-mailing an email notice is a debatable point (on one hand, it is nice to warn people; on the other, it's spamming a lot of people who won't be affected and many users would have upgraded before reading the email), as is not putting a notice on vmware.com/mac, but both of those are questions better directed at management (If you'd like, I can point you at them).

[WoodyZ]

Well if VMware was the only one that had a problem then what were all those notices at all the other vendors you checked? (Really more a rhetorical question!)

AFAIC Anyone who jumps to install any software the moment it's released and doesn't have a full and easy disaster recovery plan in place, especially if on a production system, gets exactly what they deserve and I really don't feel the least bit sorry if some systems got trashed. Stuff happens and if one is not properly prepared to deal with it then one shouldn't be using a computer. I don't care who fault it is whether it's Apple, Microsoft, VMware or whoever... every manufacture has issue from time to time, it the way its been and the way it always will be because humans are involved so either learn how to properly deal with it or it's just to bad.

[ColoradoMarmot]

I've already sent this feedback through channels: "Given the volume of marketing email I receive from VMWare, I was rather surprised that I didn't receive proactive, timely notification of a known, potentially critical incompatibility with a major OS upgrade."

I checked here: http://www.vmware.com/products/fusion/, but no word (and still none) of an incompatibility there. While the knowledgebase is upgraded (and now points to the fourms with a poorly worded entry), there wasn't anything there that day as well. Even that points to the forums, which I'll admit, I didn't expect to hold the primary (sole?) responsibility for offical notification of critical issues.

Should I have waited? I had other reasons for needing the update quickly, and made a decision to upgrade after finding all the information available (and to the other poster - not etung, of course, I had a back out plan - give me a break, I've been at this for a LONG time). Would I have done it even knowing the issue? Probably yes. Could VMWare have (and even now, be) more proactive about disclosing the issue? Absolutely. Will I know to check the forums rather than the main product support pages? Yes.

With other upgrades, I've had other vendors issue 'don't upgrade to XXX without checking with us first' messages, and with 10.5.7, they issued compatibility notices prior to release (well, to be fair, they said "We've encountered no issues with our internal testing), but at least heard something one way or another. I suspect that it was a Pinto-like situation: small user base, niche bug, decision made to not 'scare away customers'.

One of the foibles of the Mac is that we're at the mercy of Apple waiting for updates - the Java one is 6 months overdue. I suspect that we won't see a fix anytime soon.

[dane_kantner]

It must still be an issue... i just downloaded the newest vmware fusion (2.0.5). when you start the VM up, it gives a warning that it's automatically disabling the 3d acceleration, it says it will be automatically re-enabled when there's an updated ATI driver.

[protagonisto]

Specifically, my system, a 24" iMac with an nVidia card is experiencing host lockups with 3D acceleration enabled. Each time, it never recovers and requuires a cold shutdown. It wasn't until reading another post about the ATI card issues, that I turned off 3D acceleratioin. These lockups started happening after I upgraded to 10.5.7. You say there is a workaround? Is it documented? Where do I find this workaround? And since this is a workaround, when is a permanent solution going to be offered? Plus, I thought there was a cooperative relationship between VMWare and Apple. How could this have been allowed to occur?

[dane_kantner]

The work-around for the ATI issue does seem to be disabling 3d acceleration on the VM, which you've done... What applications are you running when it crashes, or does it just happen randomly?

They've said the ATI issue will be fixed when a new driver is released, which it sounds like it might not be until a 10.5.8 update comes out (quarterly-ish?)

As far as a working relationship... I'm sure Apple's priority is releasing said updates and not delaying because of Fusion development. This wouldn't be the first time an update caused a major bug in Fusion (...refer back to the inability to "direct print" after an update a few months ago...)

[hs51dgs]

I don't think I understand this, at least not on the evidence I have. I'm running 10.5.7 and was running Fusion 2.0.4. I mostly run XP Pro for work but also use it to play Roblox (a 3D game) with my son - no sniggering please Everything was fine. Today I upgraded to Fusion 2.0.5 and got the ATI "3D acceleration has been disabled" message. After this, Roblox couldn't create its window (something like failed to create graphics port). I read this thread and tried disabling 3D acceleration in the VM but this didn't make any difference.

I then uninstalled 2.0.5 and reinstalled 2.0.4 and after uninstalling and reinstalling VMware tools, I was back where I started and Roblox is working again (still with 10.5.7)

So if I hadn't read this thread, it would have seemed to me that it is the 2.0.5 upgrade that is incompatible with my iMac, not the other way round.

I've now re-read the release notes for 2.0.4 and 2.0.5 and the ATI issue appears to be with March 2009 iMacs that have Radeon HD 4850 and 4870 chipsets. My iMac is a 2008 model and according to the System Profiler has the HD 2600 Pro chipset.

Is there some 3D problem with OSX 10.5.7/ATI HD 2600 and Fusion 2.0.4 that I haven't come across? If not, why is 2.0.5 flagging this up as a problem and preventing Roblox from working?

This may all sound rather trivial but Roblox does recommend Fusion as the best approach to running it on a Mac.

david

[bgertzfield]

Hi David,

I'm really sorry for the inconvenience.

The problem is that there are a number of crashes deep inside the ATI OpenGL driver that shipped with Mac OS X 10.5.7. These crashes are triggered by a number of different 3D workloads, and apply to all ATI hardware (not just the latest).

Since these crashes could cause data loss in your virtual machine, and Fusion doesn't know beforehand exactly which 3D operations might trigger a crash, the 2.0.5 update pre-emptively disables 3D for known broken driver versions. Once a working driver is available, Fusion 2.0.5 will automatically enable 3D again.

If you know your 3D workload does not trigger the crash in the ATI drivers, you can create or edit the following file in TextEdit:

~/Library/Preferences/VMware Fusion/config

and add the line:

mks.gl.force3DForBrokenATIDriver = TRUE

Again, thanks for writing, and sorry about the trouble.

[protagonisto]

The OS X host crashing (with 3D enabled) occurs as soon as graphics starts enhanced mode as the desktop loads. No other applications are running by then except for those services loading before that. The host crashes occurs on a dependable and repeatable basis.

I understand that Apple does not follow VMWare's Fusion dev cycle. However, don't the Fusion developers get an early release of Apple updates so they can QA for possible issues? Did they not have enough time to test for all issues before the 10.5.7 release. Was there also a known issue discovered with NVidia cards? If so, was it a known issue before the 2.0.5 release? And if it wasn't a known issue by the 2.0.5 release why weren't registered customers notified of the issue after the release.

[abcphysics]

I tried entering the line suggested but I still get the 3D Graphics Acceleration is disabled message at startup. Being new to this, did I need to reboot the Mac as well?

You shouldn't need to reboot. It sounds like you might not have put the line in the right place.

If putting the line in the file ~/Library/Preferences/VMware Fusion/config (specifically, the Library folder in your home folder) doesn't work, you can also browse to your virtual machine in Finder by going to your Documents folder, then into Virtual Machines, and then Control-clicking or right clicking on your virtual machine and selecting "Show Package Contents".

Inside there should be a file with ".vmx" at the end of the name. Shut down your VM, then edit that file in TextEdit and add the line. Save the file, and then start up your VM.

Good luck!

[abcphysics]

That worked. I noticed the other lines in the file and so I put the TRUE in "". Don't know if it mattered or not but its working now.

Thanks

[watamix]

Hello

I was having the same graphics related issue with my 24" iMac that has ATI graphics.

I have moved back to Fusion v2.04, since it seems to be working just fine.

How will I know that it's okay to update to v2.05?

Or should I just wait until OS 10.5.8 is released, and assume that the problem is addressed with that update?

Thanks!!

Ken Newman

[hs51dgs]

Hi Ben

Thanks for your really helpful reply. I added

mks.gl.force3DForBrokenATIDriver = "TRUE"

to is the name of your VM package) and upgraded again to Fusion 2.0.5 and now I can run Roblox successfully.

It's worth emphasising that this is risky. As you make clear, the problem with the OS X 10.5.7 ATI OpenGL driver has the potential to compromise the VM, whether you are running Fusion 2.0.4 or 2.0.5. For this reason, I think it is preferable to follow abcphysics' suggestion and set force3D at VM level which would allow you to create a safe VM (with 3D disabled) for work and a riskier one for games. I've been running Roblox for a while so for now I'm not doing that yet - though I have backed up my VM

FWIW I think the Fusion team did the right thing in disabling ATI 3D in v2.0.5

Thanks again for the great support

david

[ColoradoMarmot]

Given that it took Apple 6 months to release a critical java security patch, and that this generally impacts older machines, I wouldn't hold my breath for a standalone patch. VMWare has been clear that they consider it Apple's bug, and won't provide a workaround or fix in Fusion either, so we're stuck at 2.0.4 for the duration.

If the fix is in 10.5.8, then that's probably when we'll see it (August/September). If not, but it is in 10.6, then we may never see a fix at all for Leopard. If it's not in either, then, well, it's probably time to look for alternatives or buy new hardware.

Does anyone know if it's been fixed in the Snow Leopard or 10.5.8 code drops? It'd be nice to know if we're waiting for nothing.

[Dippyskoodlez]

Seconded on the 10.5.8 question above, would be nice to know if any progress is made on Apple's part.

[dane_kantner]

"Given that it took Apple 6 months to release ... and this generally impacts older machines, I wouldn't hold my breath"

according to VMWare themselves (and a few of the posts above), this "bug" is actually affecting imac machines that are still available for purchase new on Apple's web site ( )