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rsxsr
Contributor
Contributor

Can you manage ESXi servers with the Virtual Center Server?

Hello, So far I have gotten good quick replies from this community. Currently I am evaluating VMware ESX Server 3.5 as a host with 3 guests. I am also evaluating Virtual Center Server on a different hardware box. My sales rep is telling me, If I choose to use ESXi instead of the 3.5 server version, I would not be able to manage it with the Virtual Center Server. The reason for evaluating 3.5 was that the older Compaq server kept blue screening I was first testing with. I am happy with the 3.5 version, but am told I can purchase a new HP server with ESXi embedded/installed or download and install ESXi for free. Having tested with and without the Virtual Center Server supporting the host, I think in our environment we will need the Virtual Center Server. The client alone does not give enough functionality. Am I being given wrong information? I have a VM ware reseller coming on campus with an engineer tomorrow. I was tempted to take down one of my new HP servers and test for myself before they got here. Also the quotes I get include different levels of support. I am told that you can not purchase VM ware without purchasing the support. Is this also true? Thank you for taking the time to read this and hopefully reply. Regards mark

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weinstein5
Immortal
Immortal

Yes you can manage ESXi with virtual center - you will just need to make sure you have the VC agent licenses to cover the ESXi servers - and if you plan to use vmotion, DRS and HA you will need license for those -

Yes when you buy VMware you buy it with a support package which is a good thing because it will give you abaility to upgrad to vSphere when it is released -

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JeffDrury
Hot Shot
Hot Shot

Yes you can manage ESXi with Virtual Center Server as long as it is licensed and not the free version. I'm not sure about the support question but be sure you understand the differences between VI Foundation, VI Standard, and VI Enterprise. You won't get features like DRS, and VMotion without VI Enterprise.

rsxsr
Contributor
Contributor

Thank you for the quick reply. I had to ask. It did not make sense. Since I have been running only evaluation versions, I am not familiar with the licensing yet. The acronyms and descriptions are hard for someone new to keep up with. I know what I want to accomplish in my mind just need to find out the cost. Don't want to purchase what I can't even figure out how to use yet. I have only gotten my feet wet so far. What about purchasing without Support packages? The community seems to be the best help I have ever come across. mark

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weinstein5
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You can manage the free version as well - you will just need the licenses -

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weinstein5
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Yes the forums are great - the biggest advantag by buying support is the ability to upgrade - without support you will not be able to go beyond 3.5 without having to pay out that money again -

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Troy_Clavell
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this maybe a little helpful as well

http://www.vmware.com/files/pdf/vi_pricing3.pdf

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rsxsr
Contributor
Contributor

If I purchase an new HP Proliant server with ESXi embedded, would the be considered licensed? We are a not for profit company, and donations are way off and my budget has been slashed. We had an AC problem and lost 3 old Comaq servers from being overheated too many times. They were shutting off the building air at night and our auxilary air for the server room was low on freon. I managed to get the servers that died onto Virtual machines, but need to make a decsion soon. Thank you again. mark

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rsxsr
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Troy, thank you for the link. Every product has VMware in it's name. For someone new it is hard to tell one from the other. I will read it through before the experts come on campus. mark

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patrickds
Expert
Expert

You can manage the free version as well - you will just need the licenses -

That's a bit of a confusing statement.

If you buy the license to be able to manage it with VC, it's no longer the free version, is it.

With this license you would also be able to install a normal ESX.

And don't forget that buying a license will also require buying a support contract, so it becomes even less free.

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JeffDrury
Hot Shot
Hot Shot

I think some of the biggest confusion in the VMware product lineup is the difference between ESX 3.5, ESXi, and ESXi Free Version. Maybe a different naming scheme would have helped this issue ;).

ESXi when licensed provides all of the features and functionality of ESX 3.5, but it is based on a different architecture. Instead of having a service console to manage the ESX 3.5 host ESXi uses a thin hypervisor with the ability to use a RCLI. ESX 3.5 has to be installed on a local disk or SAN partition while ESXi can run on embedded flash memory or the local disk. When both products are properly licensed there little difference between the two. Many people say that ESXi is a stripped down version of ESX 3.5 but that is not true.

The free version of ESXi however has some significant differences. ESXi Free version allows you to run a baremetal hypervisor that is capable of running virtual machines and not much else, kind of like a MS Hyper-V server. You cannot manage a ESXi Free version with a VI Infrastructure server.

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patrickds
Expert
Expert

Quite right.

But there is no actual difference between the Free and the non-free ESXi.

Both are exactly the same file you download and install (same build and md5sum), the only difference is the license you use after installation.

Free license makes it a standalone host, paid license makes it manageable by VC and adds all the fancy features.

You can turn your free-licensed ESXi into a fully licensed one by changing the license.

The free version actually only becomes 'the free version' after you put in 'the free license'; until then it will be a fully functional 'demo-licensed' version with all the features active for 60 days.

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rsxsr
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Contributor

Ok, some very helpful information. Did not want to start a feud. Smiley Wink I think VMware could use some help in their marketing department. It is awsome software from what I can tell, but if I can't tell what to purchase, how good can it be? I'll report back after my site visit tomorrow. Mark

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rsxsr
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Well, I had my site visit from the VMware reseller and engineer. It looks like I am on the right track, but may have jumped out of the gate too soon. My understanding is moving my virtual machines from my evaluation server is not quite as easy as converting hardware servers to virtual ones. Seems there is a hierarchy that needs to be considered. My evaluation ESX server is the top of that hierarchy and homes the ESX kernel along with the flat files for my Virtual Machines. I understand there are no easy ways to move these into my production enviroment once I get started. Acronis software was recommended, but these VM machines can be recreated so not a big headache. One thing that came out was that ESXi needed to run on top of Windows or another OS where ESX 3.5 is more standalone. That might account for the blue screens trying to boot from the iso ESXi version. The sales person was really pushing the Enterprise Flavor of VMware. The economy is tough right now and we are a not for profit company. I appreciate everyones help. Still waiting for the quote. I also understand that I should be using a network storage device for my flat file Virtual Machines and running two ESX hosts. This is where the fault tolerance and disaster recovery part of VM ware kicks in. Last time I checked an HP SANs device was not cheap and I should have two. One here and one at the collocation. Any recommedations would be appreciated. I have a brand new proliant server with the space, but then I am depending on Windows to share off my VM flat files. Not the best senario. Is there another OS I could install to utilze this Proliant server for flat file storage? Regards and thanks for all the help and advice. P.S. even though I registered with VM ware for the downloads, no one from VM ware actually did contact me. I thought that was a little odd. It has been 30 days. mark

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weinstein5
Immortal
Immortal

Find a different reseller if they told you VMware esxi runs ontop of

windows or other operating system -esx and esxi both run on bare metal

with no operating system preinduslled

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 24, 2009, at 1:44 PM, "rsxsr" <communities-emailer@vmware.com

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rsxsr
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That sounded a little odd when I heard it. The ESXi ISO image seemed to install fine on my older Compaq server, but would blue screen after the install was complete and was booting for the first time during network configuration. Perhaps they were trying to explain why ESX 3.5 would run on the older server, but not ESXi. The quote they sent was not even for the VMware software enterprise suite. It was for the Acronis enterprise software. I think they are so excited to have a customer, they are saying anything and rushing to keep from losing us. The company also wanted to include on site setup for a fee. I mentioned that this community seemed to be very helpful and thought I could get along, but the Vmotion, virtual switches for load balancing and the SANs device are new to me. So we can see what they come up with. Regards. mark

 

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patrickds
Expert
Expert

Looks like you need to try a different reseller indeed.

Trying to sell you Acronis Enterprise Server to move a VM from one ESX(i or not) to another sounds like they don't know what they're talking about.

And the statement that ESXi installs on top of Windows just proves that.

I wouldn't let those guys near any server of mine even if they paid me.

Which model is that HP server you're trying to install ESXi on?

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Dave_Mishchenko
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Immortal

How many hosts do you plan to run ESX(i) on? What functionality are you looking at from VirtualCenter? VirtualCenter (vCenter server) is not required to manage ESXi or ESX and if you plan just a single host you might be able to live without it. If you don't plan to use vCenter for functionality like High Availability, vmotion, then VMware has a promo on where you get a basic edition of vCenter and 3 VC agent licenses (i.e. to manage up to 3 dual processor ESXi hosts) for $500 US (till the end of April I beleive).

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rsxsr
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Patrick, Agreed, My sentiments exactly. Can you recommend someone? Email me at nospam at bocafed dot org. I just posted a question about our deployment. I am trying to understand using a San's device to host my virtual machines. We are reading about fiber channel and iscsi. We have a brand new DL380 HP proliant server that I'd like to configure to store my flat files for my virtual machines. In the end, I'd like to have two hosts running 4 virtual machines each with the flat files on some sort of network storage device. I imagine the speed they communicate with the storage device and proximity are very important. My test environment has the flat files saved on the same server running the ESX 3.5. I have another hardware server running my virtual center. What I described above seems to be the best solution for my current environment. Just not sure how to get there. Regards. mark

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rsxsr
Contributor
Contributor

Dave, I just posted what I envision for my enviroment going forward. I needed the Virtual Center Server to rescue 3 hardware servers that died from an Air Conditioning failure. I was able to rob parts from each and get the servers converted to Virtual Machines for now. It is only 3 currently, but I'd like to have two hosts running 3 or 4 virtual machines with the flat files on some sort of network storage, hopefully not a windows server. Regards.  

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