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VirtuallyConfus
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Windows 2003 servers at 100% utilization

Can anyone tell me why Windows server 2003 client systems would be at higher CPU utilization (or hit 100%) more often when upgrading from 2 to 4 vCPUs?

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RParker
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Knowledge and Experience, and 100 other users on this forum.

If a mechanic tells you to do something with your car, like a recommendation for oil, or gas, that comes from extensive knowledge and testing. They don't have a "book" to refer to you for referrence. Experience teaches us certain things, and obviously since you are having problems, you sought help at VM Ware, they told you one thing, and you are still having problems because it was easier to simply throw hardware at the problem, rather than actually FIX the problem.

So I can't give you a link. You can search and find many many posts on this subject, why adding more than 1 vCPU to a VM doesn't result in more performance, and many users have reported it actually HURTS performance. So you can search this forum for answers on the subject and find many opinions, but for the most part the majority of users of this community forum are experienced ESX techs with more than 2 or 3 years working with this stuff. So can choose to accept it, but given the fact the info that VM rep gave didn't help you, should tell you something.

Does this mean the 100% utilization within Windows is statistically meaningless?

Yes, largely. It's a point of referrence. It's not absolute.

Seems strange to go from a physical platform with low to normal utilization to a virtual platform running reportedly high utilization

Well physical hardware has it's own drivers, also these OS aren't designed for VM's they just work. The OS wants control of the hardware, the hardware is derived from a software emulated mode that appears as hardware, but it doesn't work like physical hardware. So sometimes the CPU will peg the meter, but if you look beneath the hood in ESX you will see what Windows interprets as 100% CPU may not actually BE 100% CPU core, it's relative performance of what the CPU is set at.

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RParker
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CPU utilization (or hit 100%) more often when upgrading from 2 to 4 vCPUs?

Contention schedule probably. Are you sure you need 4 vCPU? you can probably get better performance just using 2, or even 1 vCPU. Have you tested it?

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a_p_
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Most likely you overcommitted CPU's.

How many CPU's / cores do you have in your host system?

How many virtual machines are running?

How many vCPU's are assigned to each VM?

André

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VirtuallyConfus
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CPU utilization (or hit 100%) more often when upgrading from 2 to 4 vCPUs?

Contention schedule probably. Are you sure you need 4 vCPU? you can probably get better performance just using 2, or even 1 vCPU. Have you tested it?

Actually, it was a VMWare engineer who suggested we go from 2 to 4 because they claim...

"It doubles the processing potential. It doubles the physical time slices in which to operate. The virtual machines will go from having the potential of using a maximum of 5GHz of CPU to a maximum of 10GHz of CPU."

Our systems are heavily utilized at the 2 CPU mark hitting 100% several times in a m 5 minute period. Any recommendations?

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VirtuallyConfus
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Most likely you overcommitted CPU's.

How many CPU's / cores do you have in your host system?

How many virtual machines are running?

How many vCPU's are assigned to each VM?

André

I am not sure; I'll have to get back to you on that.

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RParker
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Our systems are heavily utilized at the 2 CPU mark hitting 100% several times in a m 5 minute period. Any recommendations?

I am only going to say that VM ware rep is incorrect for making this a general "hypothesis" and they are incorrect in saying that it "It doubles the physical time slices in which to operate". That's totally false. Virtual CPU is not the same a physical CPU.

Also tell this VM Ware rep to log on to the community and we can explain to them why this is a REALLY bad idea to suggest adding CPU will fix issues.

Go back 2 vCPU, find out which process is causing the high CPU.

That's where we need to diagnose the issue.

also 100% CPU does not mean something is wrong. ALL it means is your software is taking advantage of the CPU, that's what it's supposed to do, it doesn't mean there is a problem. Software is supposed to take advantage of the CPU cycles available but to really tell that it is doing "real work" is check the cpu rdy% in ESX console for the host where the VM is running. If it's higher than 5% that means the CPU is waiting on the hardware (hypervisor) to schedule a CPU for it to use.

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VirtuallyConfus
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<div class="jive-quote">

Our systems are heavily utilized at the 2 CPU mark hitting 100% several times in a m 5 minute period. Any recommendations?

</div>

I am only going to say that VM ware rep is incorrect for making this a general "hypothesis" and they are incorrect in saying that it "It doubles the physical time slices in which to operate". That's totally false. Virtual CPU is not the same a physical CPU.

Also tell this VM Ware rep to log on to the community and we can explain to them why this is a REALLY bad idea to suggest adding CPU will fix issues.

Go back 2 vCPU, find out which process is causing the high CPU.

That's where we need to diagnose the issue.

also 100% CPU does not mean something is wrong. ALL it means is your software is taking advantage of the CPU, that's what it's supposed to do, it doesn't mean there is a problem. Software is supposed to take advantage of the CPU cycles available but to really tell that it is doing "real work" is check the cpu rdy% in ESX console for the host where the VM is running. If it's higher than 5% that means the CPU is waiting on the hardware (hypervisor) to schedule a CPU for it to use.

If I could trouble you one last time... you wouldn't happen to have any links to articles stating what you just said, would you? I am afraid if I go back to this person with your info, they may dismiss me (you) as not having the correct information. Anything you have would be very helpful.

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VirtuallyConfus
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<div class="jive-quote">

Our systems are heavily utilized at the 2 CPU mark hitting 100% several times in a m 5 minute period. Any recommendations?

</div>

I am only going to say that VM ware rep is incorrect for making this a general "hypothesis" and they are incorrect in saying that it "It doubles the physical time slices in which to operate". That's totally false. Virtual CPU is not the same a physical CPU.

Also tell this VM Ware rep to log on to the community and we can explain to them why this is a REALLY bad idea to suggest adding CPU will fix issues.

Go back 2 vCPU, find out which process is causing the high CPU.

That's where we need to diagnose the issue.

also 100% CPU does not mean something is wrong. ALL it means is your software is taking advantage of the CPU, that's what it's supposed to do, it doesn't mean there is a problem. Software is supposed to take advantage of the CPU cycles available but to really tell that it is doing "real work" is check the cpu rdy% in ESX console for the host where the VM is running. If it's higher than 5% that means the CPU is waiting on the hardware (hypervisor) to schedule a CPU for it to use.

If I could trouble you one last time... you wouldn't happen to have any links to articles stating what you just said, would you? I am afraid if I go back to this person with your info, they may dismiss me (you) as not having the correct information. Anything you have would be very helpful.

I also wanted to mention that they said the same thing you did about the 100% utilization. Does this mean the 100% utilization within Windows is statistically meaningless? Seems strange to go from a physical platform with low to normal utilization to a virtual platform running reportedly high utilization. Is there a better way for a client user to measure performance from the client OS?

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RParker
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Knowledge and Experience, and 100 other users on this forum.

If a mechanic tells you to do something with your car, like a recommendation for oil, or gas, that comes from extensive knowledge and testing. They don't have a "book" to refer to you for referrence. Experience teaches us certain things, and obviously since you are having problems, you sought help at VM Ware, they told you one thing, and you are still having problems because it was easier to simply throw hardware at the problem, rather than actually FIX the problem.

So I can't give you a link. You can search and find many many posts on this subject, why adding more than 1 vCPU to a VM doesn't result in more performance, and many users have reported it actually HURTS performance. So you can search this forum for answers on the subject and find many opinions, but for the most part the majority of users of this community forum are experienced ESX techs with more than 2 or 3 years working with this stuff. So can choose to accept it, but given the fact the info that VM rep gave didn't help you, should tell you something.

Does this mean the 100% utilization within Windows is statistically meaningless?

Yes, largely. It's a point of referrence. It's not absolute.

Seems strange to go from a physical platform with low to normal utilization to a virtual platform running reportedly high utilization

Well physical hardware has it's own drivers, also these OS aren't designed for VM's they just work. The OS wants control of the hardware, the hardware is derived from a software emulated mode that appears as hardware, but it doesn't work like physical hardware. So sometimes the CPU will peg the meter, but if you look beneath the hood in ESX you will see what Windows interprets as 100% CPU may not actually BE 100% CPU core, it's relative performance of what the CPU is set at.

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VirtuallyConfus
Contributor
Contributor
Jump to solution

Knowledge and Experience, and 100 other users on this forum.

If a mechanic tells you to do something with your car, like a recommendation for oil, or gas, that comes from extensive knowledge and testing. They don't have a "book" to refer to you for referrence. Experience teaches us certain things, and obviously since you are having problems, you sought help at VM Ware, they told you one thing, and you are still having problems because it was easier to simply throw hardware at the problem, rather than actually FIX the problem.

So I can't give you a link. You can search and find many many posts on this subject, why adding more than 1 vCPU to a VM doesn't result in more performance, and many users have reported it actually HURTS performance. So you can search this forum for answers on the subject and find many opinions, but for the most part the majority of users of this community forum are experienced ESX techs with more than 2 or 3 years working with this stuff. So can choose to accept it, but given the fact the info that VM rep gave didn't help you, should tell you something.

Does this mean the 100% utilization within Windows is statistically meaningless?

Yes, largely. It's a point of referrence. It's not absolute.

Seems strange to go from a physical platform with low to normal utilization to a virtual platform running reportedly high utilization

Well physical hardware has it's own drivers, also these OS aren't designed for VM's they just work. The OS wants control of the hardware, the hardware is derived from a software emulated mode that appears as hardware, but it doesn't work like physical hardware. So sometimes the CPU will peg the meter, but if you look beneath the hood in ESX you will see what Windows interprets as 100% CPU may not actually BE 100% CPU core, it's relative performance of what the CPU is set at.

Thanks for the expert response. Just so you understand, the person that made the referenced quote does not actually work for VMWare, but instead works with it daily, so they are our only resource for issues such as this. I am not trying to discredit anyone, however, I do want to remedy the issue the fastest way I can. I definitely believe what you have said and will advise accordingly.

I really do appreciate the time and energy you put into answering my questions.

Thanks again!

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asatoran
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If I could trouble you one last time... you wouldn't happen to have any links to articles stating what you just said, would you? I am afraid if I go back to this person with your info, they may dismiss me (you) as not having the correct information. Anything you have would be very helpful.

Perhaps helpful:

VMkernel Scheduler

Co-scheduling SMP VMs in VMware ESX Server

They're a little dated, but still has relevance. For a really noob version, try Choosing the Right Virtual Machine Settings, about halfway down, the section on "How Many Virtual Processors". Although it's for hosted products (and specifically, Fusion on a Mac,) I find that it sometimes helps with explaining the concept to the non-techs (i.e.: CEO, CFO, who are in charge of the $$$. Smiley Wink )