How to clone a VM under ESX?

[vimeshev]

We are working with a client who tries to set up an infrastrucutre with ESX. We have set up a single VM by converting it from VMWare Server. Now we want to clone it.

When we launch the Virtual Infrastructure Client, the menu items related to creating a VM and Inventory management are disabled.

We thought that a basic operation of cloning a VM would be a no-brainer, but, surprisingly, it is not. So, here are the questions:

1. Why are those items in the Virtual Infrastructure Client are disabled?

2. How do we clone a VM?

TIA

Slava

[RParker]

I agree. In fact, esXpress saved my configurations well, and I \*DESPISE* using remote applications to connect to a device for backup.

[RParker]

VCB is a proxy, and I hate it.

I get DAILY reminders of this fact, when we have physical machines that need netbackup (which sucks, but that is an entirely different thread), because the network failed, or something happened to the client..blah blah blah.

Ask me how many times esXpress has failed. Twice. Once because the VM wasn't upgraded (and that's another point I would like to cover in second) and the other was because the VM was too big to FIT on VMFS volume (block size limitation).

esXpress can actually IDENTIFY problems with your VM's this is a side effect of esXpress. For one it requires the creation of snapshots, if the VM's are in persistent mode, they can't do this (which to me is good). Also esXpress is LOCAL to the host. Which means EACH client is a separate entity. So if backups fail, it won't affect your ENTIRE farm.

Now let's look at the top 4 features of esXpress shall we?

1 - Notes. Does Ranger update the notes inside the VM, and give you a notification (or confirmation for that matter) that a backup was done on aVM?

NO.

2 - VCB. esXpress is local, it doesn't require VCB, and that means if the VCB fails, ALL your backups fail.

3 - Backup Schedule. ANYONE can initiate a backup (if you want them to) all they have to do is rename a VM. What can be easier. No giving them access to a backup console, so they can break stuff, no convoluted logins to get into the machine, schedule a backup, etc... To coin a similar commercial phrase: "esXpress, this is how backups are done!"

4 - Linux. Since we ALL recognize the benefits of Linux (and if you read my posts, you know how much of a Microsoft Biggot I am) before I started using ESX, I had a strong dislike for Linux, because I thought it was a toy. Now my view has changed, and I find it rather powerful. This being said, VCB and Ranger are WINDOWS products. We all know the problems around Windows and other problems. For one, Linux is a pure environment for esXpress, and as such is like 10 meg footprint (if that, I am not sure how big it is, but it is extremely small) and it doesn't require ANY prerequisites, except one, VBA (which is downloadable from the esXpress site).

Ranger, being a Windows product needs a separate machine, with VCB, it needs updates (to VCB, Windows, etc), you have to install, and it is rather involved.

Now taking this ALL into account, I would put your VCB / Ranger backup against esXpress (and before you attempt to challenge me, don't forget that we have ALL major/well known backups in our environment). I TRIED VCB / Ranger first. IT is EXTREMELY clunky to install.

Would you care to take bets on which one installs quicker and is faster to configure?

I can install esXpress in 10 seconds, and be up and running, configured in about 2 min. DONE! Ready for backup, what's for lunch?

NO other software required, no separate machine (ALL gui, and programs are SELF INSTALLING VM's)

So you may support Ranger all you want, but I forgot 2 other MAJOR points.

Speed and price. Ranger is dependent on the network (and esXpress is too, but not as much because it doesn't have to use a proxy) similar VM's (36Gb) using Ranger take about 20% longer to backup (1gb Network) vs 4gb Fibre (Fibre is actually 100mb ethernet equivalent) and I can still get 18mb/s (due to compression and esXpress efficiency)

Let's not even talk about how much Ranger costs.... I know I have a quote, you want to see it?

esXpress does NOT care if you have 1 or 4 sockets, price is the SAME for EACH host. In our case, Ranger is $10,000 for 5 ESX hosts.

esXpress: $1500.00

... AND esXpress is WAY better product.

And a soft issue that no one has covered, PHD is a small company, they own esXpress. Their support is one on one. You login to a website, you post a question, and your question will get fixed and addressed in under an hour. You can make suggestions for releases, and it will be included (usually, if its a viable, reasonable request) in the NEXT beta release. That ALONE is worth the money. There is absolutely NO value you can put on EXCELLENT support, being a support tech myself, I can attest to this. Support is everything, product is nothing without good support. I am pretty sure Vizion Core doesn't have this level of "family" atmosphere when it comes to DIRECT one on one contact.

Final Round Winner: esXpress.

hands down.

[Rumple]

We can sit here and tout the virtues of each product until we are blue in the face.

Where we are in charge of the environments, its fine and dandy to argue about how great esXpress is vs Ranger, but I've personally put both environments head to head and when its a Windows admin who doesn't know what the hell putty is running the environment or calling the shots you know as well as I do esXpress scares the shit out of them.

Couple that with needing to use FTP to backup to their cheap ass nas or promise controller storage (since they are barely willing to spring for the initial 30k for the initial tray of disk for their SAN disk to get the environment running) let alone allocating what they consider to be really expensive SAN disk real estate.

If they are going to FTP the data out to that disk, and require their "how do I install Windows server again", admin's to need to restore a server and Ranger does win hands down in their eyes.

Personally it doesn't matter to me, but since most of my customers are in the 50-300 person range, they are seriously lacking in the inhouse Windows experience let alone linux experience (even though there is an interface on the esXpress console, the last time I checked it required manual restores, not point and shoot (but don't crucify me on that point as I haven't looked needed a restore from esXpress in 6 months nad haven't followed it much).

Personally I run an environment of 50vm's in production and run esXpress on my test environment and Ranger on my prod. At the end of the day either will restore just fine.

But when I am away and I get a call from the jr admin stating such and such fell down in prod, I was able to point him at the backup server and tell him to use Ranger. He never looked at it before and was able to restore the vm.

Just for kicks and giggles (ok, I giggled, he didn't) I asked him to restore from esXpress (with the same vauge instructions of open VC and you will see the esXpress VM)...restore the test server from last night.

In the end, he was able to figure it out after about 2 days of research on how to do everything he needed (for which he gained alot of valuable experience doing). In the end it wasn't hard to do, but to him wasn't as intuitive.

That speaks volumes on ease of use for suitability of ranger in a non experienced System Admin environment.

[ronzo]

Mr Rumple-

You say "personally I run an environment of 50vm's in production and run esXpress on my test environment and Ranger on my prod. At the end of the day either will restore just fine."

Your probably using the FREE version of esXpress and comparing it to the paid version of ranger (they have no free version.)

Send sales at esxpress.com an email, they can hook you up with a NFR license. This way you will at least have a full feature version of esXpress to compare with.

thanks

ron

[Rumple]

Actually we are using the paid version of esXpress.

When I put both Ranger and esXpress into use both were presented to management and the Windows admin team.

In the end, the team wanted a Windows version because they found it easier to understand, didn't require them to login to the console to troubleshoot issues and they wanted to backup to the local server where they had a TB of space that replicates to the DR site (at the time EMC replication of vmfs volumes wasn't possible (prior to flare 19 code).

The management also liked the fact they didn't really need to use the expensive SAN disk to to store the backups (although this was a mistaken perception thing on their part as this was before vcb and both ranger and esXpress used the network to write to the ftp or local disk - but sometimes you just have to pick your battles to win).

I still got esXpress in there for test so that I could keep up with its development and I live in the VC console so kicking off backups for me is easier then logging into a server and running the app.

Again, its really not what is a better vehicle, but what people are more confirtable with. Linux just will always pick esXpress over Ranger because they are not afraid of it and they know the power. Windows guys natually gravitate to Ranger (bot not always) because its familure to them and in an emergency restore situation they have confidence in their Windows experience.

[petedr]

I see you mentioned that your point about needing expensive SAN storage was a misconception. Sure esXpress can backup to your SAN if you choose it to but it can support many methods of which some have little cost associated with them.

With esXpress you can backup to a vmfs partition ( local vmfs or on your SAN ) as well as network targets ( an ftp server ( for windows shops we recommend filezilla ) or an SSH target ). The ftp server can even be your esx host if you want to.

At my house I am running a single ESX host and I am sending esXpress backups to my windows laptop with a low cost USB drive attached to it. I am using filezilla ( which is free ) for the ftp server, very easy to set up. Can't get much more of a low cost solution then that.

[Rumple]

Actually I didn't miss the point. If you read again you will see that in order to not use expensive san you must use ftp (again, we are talking about shops with little to no linux experience).

With Ranger the clients see it as backing up to the local disk without needing to setup an ftp server (which I personally consider a point as I expect they better know how to manage an FTP server).

Again, the whole point is not the architecture as I could convince clients to go other way based upon 800 reasons from both camps. The biggest difference to Windows admin's that I've intereacted with (including my own co-workers) is the comfort from working within a Windows application.

[jmattox]

retracted

[pgregg]

Jeez guys... the guy wanted to know how to clone a VM - not a public piss-fest about the various features of esxranger vs esxpress - it all looks very childish to do this in public. Please stop.

[Rumple]

I believe I started this so let me be the first to appologize...

[admin]

Hi All,

I would like to remind everyone to please keep the tone civil, stay on topic, answer the original poster's question, and maintain the high standard of discourse and value-add replies on the VMTN community.

Paul sums it up pretty well -- no one is served by this type of bickering.

Thanks, Robert (director of community at VMware)