om8000
Contributor
Contributor

Citrix XenServer (the new free edition) vs. VMware VI prices (what is the reason for VMware high prices? Is it really so much better?)

One of my clients sent me the link below and now I am wondering what and why is that?

Can anybody tell me for real why XenServer is free and VMware VI is not?

What is the real advantage of VI3 beside really good online realtime support and different operating systems compatibility?

Why would I stick with VMware and not to switch to XenServer in the next few years ?

Please, real answers only, no guessing, no maybe(s), no, I hear(s).

I need that answer to convince our clients to stay with us and to turn them away from Citrix.

We are also preparing a small conference to convince our clients that VMware is better, so ...

Help please?

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12 Replies
SurfControl
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

does this free edition offer HA and DRS?

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MWSSC
Contributor
Contributor

#

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msemon1
Expert
Expert

ESXi is free also. The price for Citrix Xenserver just like ESXi adds up if you start adding all the management featues. To do VMotion and HA/DRS capabilities with XENServer is not free. The weakness of Xenserver has been it's HA/DRS capabilities. It was not as robust as VMware last time we looked at it. Xenserver has potential just not as mature a product as VMware. The war of the hypervisors continues!

Mike

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SurfControl
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

competition is always a good thing : -)

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msemon1
Expert
Expert

I agree competation is a good thing. I hope this keeps prices down. For smalll to medium companies that are new to virtualization I think this can be an attractive offering. For us we are too deep into VMware to consider ripping it out. There is not enough compelling finanacial incentive to redesign or reploy our infrastructure.

Mike

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phasevelocity
Contributor
Contributor

Live motion is actually for free with the new free Xenserver.

The not for free Citrix essentials provides additional features like lab automation, dynamic provisioning, workflow orchestration, high availability and integration with leading storage systems (according to Citrix).

The Citrix product feature sheet of ESXi and Xenserver:

http://www.citrix.com/English/ps2/products/feature.asp?contentID=1686939

I would also like to know what makes ESXi better than Xenserver. I would be interested to know for example how managable backups are with Xenserver. That is a very important part of the comparison.

AWo
Immortal
Immortal

Can anybody tell me for real why XenServer is free and VMware VI is not?

Because Citrix bought XEN and they now partner with Microsoft to deliver virtualization solutions: http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2008/jan08/01-21CitrixVirtualizationPR.mspx

Citrix is interested in further pushing the Presentation Server into the market and they use XEN as a vehicle to do that. VMware started to gain market shares their (Citrix) business (VMware View) so Citrix started get market shares in the server virtualization market.

IMHO the technology will get equal sooner or later. The decisions will be either made on a political layer (something you can't influence with technical arguments) or by comparing services and costs. If a player invents some really hot new technology he might get an advanced position (some thing I could think of is a complete independence from the underlying hardware architecture).

If you look deeper into what Citrix offers you'll end up that not all is free and that at a certain level of functinality you have to pay, either at VMware or Citrix XEN.

Look at this Citrix chart: http://www.citrix.com/English/ps2/products/subfeature.asp?contentID=1680964

You see there that you need the Enterprise server (minimum 2200$ per year) or higher product levels for Essentials. Snapshots (StorageLink) and HA for example are only possible with Essentials.

So if you would like to run a Datacenter class virtualization you have to pay.

What is the real advantage of VI3 beside really good online realtime support and different operating systems compatibility?

This community Smiley Wink

Today I still see a technical advantage and a lot more experience for VMware in virtualization technologie. They offer really elaborated, proven and stable products. You can be sure that some ESX servers run in the Citrix offices so the developers know where they have to get to.

But the past has shown that that didn't help always on the long run (Novell, Netscape, ...).

As I stated before, the technology will become the same. So the interesting factor is who offers the best service at the best price. And, who has the most time to play golf and always loose against the CEO of the customer. In other word who can play the political game best.

Why would I stick with VMware and not to switch to XenServer in the next few years ?

In a few years? I don't know? I only can tell you why you should do it today.

Do you know your requirements in two or or four years? Do you know what is available on the market then?

I need that answer to convince our clients to stay with us and to turn them away from Citrix.

If you only talk to the administrator, you loose.

Before following such links and getting upset you'll better sit down with your customers and write down what you need or which functionality you like to compare. Then work through the offers of both vendors or call sales representatives of both and ask for an offer including this and this and this. At the end you have to pay what is listed on that sheet.

And don't forget about support costs, as I don't think that any customer will run their critical applications on an unsupported environment.

By the way, today that is a point counting for VMware. You have a lot more VMware educated specialist available what lowers the cost as there is more competition and the time until you get help.

To clarifiy some things:

Bare-metal hypervisor XEN 64-bit ESX 32-bit

ESX 64 bit guests run as 64 bit guests as they access the CPU natively. Just like it is in XEN. That is the only thing which is relevant about the performance where this statemanet is addressed to.

Max virtual CPUs 8 4

How many 8 processor machines do you actually use and are all CPU's are really under load then? Just the possibility to do that doesn't mean that this makes sense.

I think the question of how many physical cores are supported more interesting here.

Please be aware that the list shown in this link is about what is free and not about what is possible.

If you found this information useful, please consider awarding points for "Correct" or "Helpful" replies. Thanks!!

AWo

VCP / vEXPERT 2009

vExpert 2009/10/11 [:o]===[o:] [: ]o=o[ :] = Save forests! rent firewood! =
Rumple
Virtuoso
Virtuoso

I ageee with alot of what AWo has stated.

I have been a pretty die hard fan of vmware for a while now and believe at the enterprise level for virtualizing for the sake of consolidation and test environments,etc vmware is hard to beat.

However I do think that vmware is seriously going to come under alot of pressure to keep ahead of Microsoft. Microsoft doesn't like to lose on any front and after working with their Virtual Machine Management system, it is quickly going to rival VMWare Virtual Center (which has always been the weakest link).

Combine a great management console which has the ability to manage vmware, Xen and Microsoft Hypervisor with Products that have shown to be great at heavy load virtualization, are free, and are quickly gaining the features provided by the market leader and people are going to be willing to start branching out into other virtualization area's.

Once people start realizing that for the 15-20k they need to spend on licensing vmware, they could buy bigger hardware and put the free and supported product on it and come out somewhat even (cost vs efficiency), then we are going to start seeing some serious decision making happening.

I suspect by the end of the year, if Microsoft gets the R2 product lines with more of the features of ESX, then the smaller shops will really consider the alternatives. The larger shops may stay with a single product longer, but they are gonig to start branching out.

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om8000
Contributor
Contributor

I agree with 4/8 cpu-s statement it is not always important, but what about a very big hardware and for example SAP application?

Next: what about CheckPoint firewall and 6 network interfaces without vLAN taging inside CheckPoint's RHEL?

What about free vMotion and clustering inside free ESXi ?

What about another (locked) cpu under ESXi?

What about vcbmounter and console access under ESXi?

I agree that some features are stupid (64 bit hypervisor ??? / wahtever), but waht about all above listed features?

I am not in panic. But my cutomers will be soon :). And I have some pretty big ones.

The real advantages I have found:

- CheckPoint does not install into Citrix (but VMware allows only 4 net interfaces (or maybe 5 if I disable graphic) !!

- templates repository on ftp?

- VMware & ParaVirtualization ... ??? aaaa .... beta??

I AM NOT AGAINST VMWARE, BUT THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT VMWARE CAN FALL INTO SLEEP.

PLEASE LOOK AGAIN AT Citrix XenServer free edition from 30th march 2009.

http://www.virtualization.info/images/CitrixXenServerisnowfreeXenMotionandReso_A167/XenServerFreevsE...

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AWo
Immortal
Immortal

I agree with 4/8 cpu-s statement it is not always important, but what about a very big hardware and for example SAP application?

If you really have to run such an load intensive application, then you have to choose the plattform which really satisfies the needs. If this is XEN take XEN. You can't exceed the physical boundaries.

But that needs really testing, I wouldn't give anything about functions or software which only runs good under PowerPoint.

Regarding SAP, there you need to be very, very sure that whatever plattform you use it is supported by SAP. If this is XEN take XEN. You can't exceed the SAP support boundaries.

Regarding all the other functional and product feature points listed. I don't get your point here? Do you want to know what is free and what is not free because you are unsure about that or is it some kind of complaining about how it is?

I AM NOT AGAINST VMWARE, BUT THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT VMWARE CAN FALL INTO SLEEP.

What do you want to hear? That VMware should give all away for free? Keep in mind that VMWare ONLY has virtualization products, whereas Citrix, especially in cooperation with Microsoft is able to cross subvention XEN.

If that leads to the fact that Citrix can give away all functions for free, you can't do anything about that. If you customers find that reason enough to change, you can't do anything about that. If Citrix provides a product wich is as robust and fast and manageble as ESX for free, you can't do anything about that. If VMware doesn't change their pricing while XEN costs nothing, you can't do anything about that and you will have to learn XEN in the future. But if VMware can't take money for something you have to learn XEN in the future, as well.

But has Linux kicked all other OS out of the market just because it is free? No. Maybe because it is not so free as always stated and the Linux community also needs to buy food.

And always keep in mind that sales persons are payed better the larger the bills are. So completely free products are not what they looking for. They have to sell something. This applies to the vendor as well as to the partner. Even if the they can take some good money for the service in the beginning these prices will go down as soon as more people jump onto that train and provide an equal service.


If you found this information useful, please consider awarding points for "Correct" or "Helpful" replies. Thanks!!


AWo

VCP / vEXPERT 2009

vExpert 2009/10/11 [:o]===[o:] [: ]o=o[ :] = Save forests! rent firewood! =
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om8000
Contributor
Contributor

Yes, what I want is a full table with VMware vs. Xen features, where of course VMware

has more advantage. Does not have to be longer list of features, but better one!. We

are comparing 20.000$, or to remind you all in Europe this is 20.000€ against 0$!.

I want to convince my customers to stay with me and I want to convince new potential

coustomers to choose VMware. I don't want some Internet tables, that prefer Xen.

I would like comparement Vi3 -against- XenServer free, VI3 standard -against- Citrix Xen Essentials

Enterprise and VI3 enterprise -against- Citrix Xen Server Platinum with Essentials.

I want table that is better than the one below.

Can anyone help me? Where can I get those tables? I also want prices for all

6 choices (with support included). Can anyone at least tell me who can I contact for that?

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cargom98
Contributor
Contributor

Free Citrix Xen does have Vmotion, cloning and other features that ESXi does not have. After testing VMWARE, Citrix Xen and Xen for long time ...Definitively Citrix Xen is offering the best with no cost ....

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