VMware Cloud Community
BobbyJ
Contributor
Contributor

OK, 3.5 who's doing it ... and who's done it... ??

Just getting ready to install 5 new ESX 3.0.2 hosts in an DRS-HA cluster and am just wondering if now would be a good time to jump to 3.5 (we have the licensing).

Usually as a general rule of best practice I wait 6 mos or so after a release before upgrading, but if things are solid enough I think now would be a good time to do the upgrade, saving some headaches down the road.

So, I'm wondering what the masses are doing...

1. Are there alot running on 3.5

2. Are there any major problems with 3.5 (known anyways)

3. Are there any big changes from 3.02 I would need to know about to plan for.

Thanks for sharing.

Reply
0 Kudos
35 Replies
RParker
Immortal
Immortal

> 1. Are there alot running on 3.5

I would not say a lot, but a few.

> 2. Are there any major problems with 3.5 (known anyways)

many. For one they seemed to have reintroduced errors that were already fixed in 3.02, namely issuing service mgmt-vmware restart will cause all powered on VM's to reset.

> 3. Are there any big changes from 3.02 I would need to know about to plan for.

Not really, but a lot of nice cool features, like storage vmotion. There are many enhancements and upgrades, and I think overall 3.5 will be an excellent product. Right now we are all victims of early adoption, but I don't regret it, just takes some patience.

Reply
0 Kudos
DougBaer
Commander
Commander

I am running it in the lab, alongside some 3.0.2 boxes. At this point, I do not need most of the new features offered in 3.5 for my production environment, although Storage VMotion is tempting.

While hardly MAJOR problems, here are a few things I would be aware of... in no particular order.

1. As of the last time I checked, the HP maangement agents for VMware ESX 3.x did not install on 3.5, so my integration with HP SIM does not work on my 3.5 boxes... yet.

2. I would watch for support by any non-VMware products that you currently use with your VI3 stuff (esxRanger, vOptimize, esxPress, Nagios, etc.)

3. I was not able to use the Import function from Workstation 6.0 to push a VM image to my VC 2.5/ESX 3.5 environment... to VC 2.0/ESX 3.0.x, works fine.

4. MSCS clusters are not currently supported under 3.5

My results, YMMV.

Doug

Doug Baer, Solution Architect, Advanced Services, Broadcom | VCDX #019, vExpert 2012-23
Reply
0 Kudos
RParker
Immortal
Immortal

2. I would watch for support by any non-VMware products that you currently use with your VI3 stuff (esxRanger, vOptimize, esxPress, Nagios, etc.)

This is a huge one. you can add to the list Dell PE R900/2950 with the PERC 6 RAID controller, there doesn't appear to be a working driver. But definately those vendors have had problems with the new implementation. As of this writing, esxRanger is only at RC, and their other products still don't support VC 2.5. My personal experience with esXpress/3.5 has been less than stellar (my fault for upgrading too quickly) but it's been a work in progress to be sure. ALL the vendors seem to be a tug of war with VM Ware, especially since problems that were fixed have resurfaced.. not good from VM Ware standpoint, but I am confident it will be fixed soon..

The number one public enemy seems to be lack of support for 64-bit and the VIC.. that's causing quite a stir..

Reply
0 Kudos
Full_Halsey
Contributor
Contributor

There is also a bug in licensing an ESX 3.5 host using the host file method, not VC server licensing for servers with 4 or more CPU. Tech support said an emergency patch should be released soon. We use Platespin PowerConvert and they can't give me a date when they will be releasing an ESX 3.5 supported version.

Reply
0 Kudos
MR-T
Immortal
Immortal

I've setup a few 3.5 host and am very happy with the results. Stability wise, it's solid and I've fully tested every feature, HA, DRS, VMotion, CDP, VCB, VUM, SVmotion.

There are a few new features worth getting excited about.

1) Update Manager - easy way to patch the ESX hosts

2) Ability to import VCB backups directly into VC by simply right clicking a cluster object and following a wizard.

3) Storage VMotion (although only CLI at the moment!).

Platespin support is not currently available but I understand it will be completed mid Q1.

I didn't have any issues running HP insight agents 7.91 and everything reported normally.

Issues: Not 100% happy with the client plugin feature for VMware Converter & Update Manager. Sometimes I'm asked to select the check box to enable these again.

Reply
0 Kudos
Dave_Mishchenko
Immortal
Immortal

Is that the January 1st release for esXpress that you're on? If so, besides the lack of GUI is there anything else that is a significant issue?

Reply
0 Kudos
RParker
Immortal
Immortal

> 2) Ability to import VCB backups directly into VC by simply right clicking a cluster object and following a wizard.

Can you elaborate a little on how this is accomplished? This sounds like it could be useful for us.. but I am not quite sure what you mean by "VCB" backups.. So if you ONLY do VCB this is a feature?

If so.. This might be worth looking into.

Reply
0 Kudos
dreamgear
Contributor
Contributor

One thing you might want to consider is that apparently some hardware that was on the 3.0.x HCL is not on 3.5 HCL.

Reply
0 Kudos
mcowger
Immortal
Immortal

1) Probably not a lot yet, but there are some

2) Nothing major that anyone has seen. Some have some concerns about VC2.5's integrated database...

3) Nothing all that major - there are a few minor tweaks to some command line options.

--Matt

--Matt VCDX #52 blog.cowger.us
Reply
0 Kudos
renehasp
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

We upgraded from Virtual Center from 2.X to 2.5 and we have seen some major issues. We have a total of 10 Hosts in total\ Over 100 Vm's and HA and DRS. VC is connected to a SQL 2000 db...

After the upgrade.

1a.

Two of the ESX hosts looked disconnected you couldn't ping them or do anything else. While the VM's were up and running.

1b.

HA would not initialize.

1c.

Virtual Center had major hang-ups and response time outs. The errors included time out errors and vm.fault.NOHost

**resolved by doing**

I ran the "shutdown now" command and it resolved the issues with the hosts and VC is performing normally.

Turned HA back on and it worked without any issues.

**PROBLEM**

The historic performance data for any of the VM's hosted on the two hosts is missing.

B.

Two other hosts would not upgrade the Virtual Center Client on them.

**resolved by doing**

I manually copied the files to the hosts and ran the upgrade manually the ran the service mgmt-vmware restart then reconnected the hosts in VC and It works now.

VIC client related problems

C1. On my computer the VIC just shuts off without any error. OR when you click on Console it closes out with error

C2. There is a certificate error when starting the client.

C3. I uninstalled VIC 2.0 and the update reinstalled it even though it can't be used.

Reply
0 Kudos
MR-T
Immortal
Immortal

Basically, VC2.5 comes with the ability to install and integrate VMware Converter which can then be used to import and export virtual machines.

You can right click a host or cluster and follow the wizard to import either a physical server, existing VM from another product or select a vmx file inside a selected folder and restore an exported VM.

I mentioned VCB because this is how i've used it.

If I restore a full image backup taken with VCB to a windows share on my VCB proxy server (or anywhere running my backup client) I can then point to this during an import using VMware converter and simply create a new VM inside VC.

Reply
0 Kudos
RParker
Immortal
Immortal

Yeah, something isn't right. I installed 2 ESX servers, fresh. Preserved the VMFS volume. I then deleted the esxpress folder, the vmfshelpers, and everything I could find that was not esxpress related. I installed the VBA and the latest 3.1.1 build.

Everytime I do a backup on a server, it hangs. The host shows up red in the console, and the only thing I can do is ssh to the host, and issue a service mgmt-vmware restart to bring the host back online. This takes 4 to 5 hours. No that's not a misprint. I wait and wait and wait for it finally respond.. then it will relinquish the host, it comes back, and then it's fine again.

But the esxhelper doing the backup is still running, so I have to abort the backups, and then I can usually backup the rest of the VM's with a retry, but even that will sometimes hang. It was absolutely perfect before 3.5.

I have to believe that VM Ware did something to their ESX code, given the fact that esxpress/PDH support cannot get the GUI to work yet, so there is a problem someplace. Also keeping in mind the restart issue bug where the VM's restart with autostart configured, and a bunch of other problems (quirky issues), this is just a 3.5 problem.

VM Ware is obviously experiencing some QA issues, or they are leapfrogging with their code. Team A works on build 3.02, Team B works on build 3.5, then Team A works on the next build of 3.5, something like that. That's just a guess, but what else would explain obvious code changes made in 3.02 that were fixed, and 3.02 was flawless basically, but we really could use storage vmotion, which is why I upgraded. Now I have these problems. Everything is great, except every day I have to restart a host, this is getting to be monotonous.

I have been back and fourth with esxpress support, and I am just tired. So I have to resort to using VCB until the problem is fixed. In the mean time I keep checking and hoping that some miraculous discovery will resolve my problems, but alas I may just have to stick it out until the next patch for 3.5.

Reply
0 Kudos
RParker
Immortal
Immortal

Amazing isn't it? I hate to point this out to everyone, but we don't have these issues with Microsoft. NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER have I seen recurring problems with Microsoft patches. Say what you want about Microsoft code, but when a problem is fixed in SP1, it's fixed, period.

I find it amazing that we have commercial grade products, Vizion, platespin, Veeam, et al, the VM World has come and gone in September, and here we are in 2008, and yet these companies don't have even a BETA yet? Umm..yeah.. That's just like.. umm.. WOW.

Who is running these companies, children? You can't run a company like that.

And then VM Ware has a product that is supposedly released (I still question why there was no open beta, perhaps 3.5 is it!) and we have ALL these new issues along with old ones, it's just amazing.

People bash Microsoft, in 25 years of working with Microsoft it has NEVER, EVER been like this, not once.

I am seriously considering testing Windows 2008 beta w/hypervisor just for kicks.. It certainly can't hurt.

So what is taking so long for these companies to fix these problems, did they take an extended vacation at the end of the year or what?

To their credit, esXpress was the ONLY company ready for 3.5, and I am not sure that VM Ware was ready for 3.5, but at least esXpress was. So evidently esXpress got that email it was coming out...

Reply
0 Kudos
RParker
Immortal
Immortal

That would make sense, however hardware that was support previous SHOULD still be supported. It doesn't make sense to drop support for hardware that works, also since there aren't that many machines that are supported in the first place.

I don't think that is it, but if that is truly a problem, that is another issue with vM Ware then, if they simply drop support for hardware that isn't even out of warranty....

Reply
0 Kudos
Aftenposten
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Yeah, something isn't right. I installed 2 ESX servers, fresh. Preserved the VMFS volume. I then deleted the esxpress folder, the vmfshelpers, and everything I could find that was not esxpress related. I installed the VBA and the latest 3.1.1 build.

Everytime I do a backup on a server, it hangs. The host shows up red in the console, and the only thing I can do is ssh to the host, and issue a service mgmt-vmware restart to bring the host back online. This takes 4 to 5 hours. No that's not a misprint. I wait and wait and wait for it finally respond.. then it will relinquish the host, it comes back, and then it's fine again.

Hi RParker,

I had the exact same issue with fresh install, did not even keep the vmfs volume. The solution for me was to create a new cluster and move the hosts to the new cluster. After I did that, I have not experienced any problems. I also use esxpress

Reply
0 Kudos
dominic7
Virtuoso
Virtuoso

So Microsoft only released one daylight savings patch and it worked 100% the first time?

Also, good luck with Hyper-V!

I'm also failing to see how esXpress was the only company that was ready for ESX 3.5, in fact to my knowledge with the elimination of the service console ( leaving only the VCB framework to back up VMs ) it looks to me that esXpress isn't positioned very well for the future. You're also complaining that companies don't have their products ready for a product that isn't even 30 days old at the time of this post, and VMware was not very forthcoming with their release date.

Amazing isn't it? I hate to point this out to everyone, but we don't have these issues with Microsoft. NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER have I seen recurring problems with Microsoft patches. Say what you want about Microsoft code, but when a problem is fixed in SP1, it's fixed, period.

I find it amazing that we have commercial grade products, Vizion, platespin, Veeam, et al, the VM World has come and gone in September, and here we are in 2008, and yet these companies don't have even a BETA yet? Umm..yeah.. That's just like.. umm.. WOW.

Who is running these companies, children? You can't run a company like that.

And then VM Ware has a product that is supposedly released (I still question why there was no open beta, perhaps 3.5 is it!) and we have ALL these new issues along with old ones, it's just amazing.

People bash Microsoft, in 25 years of working with Microsoft it has NEVER, EVER been like this, not once.

I am seriously considering testing Windows 2008 beta w/hypervisor just for kicks.. It certainly can't hurt.

So what is taking so long for these companies to fix these problems, did they take an extended vacation at the end of the year or what?

To their credit, esXpress was the ONLY company ready for 3.5, and I am not sure that VM Ware was ready for 3.5, but at least esXpress was. So evidently esXpress got that email it was coming out...

>

Reply
0 Kudos
petedr
Virtuoso
Virtuoso

Hey Dominic,

We are currently working on the next generation of esXpress, probably in Beta by the summer which will totally eliminate anything running in the service console. Today with esXpress all of the backup work is already done in the Virtual Backup Appliance (VBA). The service console piece is mainly for the monitoring and scheduling of the VBAs and also for restores. With the next generation those last service console pieces will also move to the VBA.

Pete@esxpress

www.thevirtualheadline.com www.liquidwarelabs.com
Reply
0 Kudos
mike_laspina
Champion
Champion

I am getting the impression that too many IT Pros are looking at the upgrade as some simple trivial task that should work for every possible configuration that is out there without flaws.

Back to the school of IT for anyone who thinks you can get on the horse and ride without falling.

Those days are gone. System stability, integrity and performance comes with an expense.

Evaluate. Plan. Plan some more and more. Re-think Revise. Test. Test. Test. Fix, Fix.

Now do it on production.

http://blog.laspina.ca/ vExpert 2009
Reply
0 Kudos
Dave_Mishchenko
Immortal
Immortal

Will that include support for 3i?

Reply
0 Kudos