Very upset about VCP requirements!

[rtausch]

First off, I have gained MCSE, CCNA, CompTIA and many other certifications without having to pay for an expensive course. All I had to do was build a test system, buy a study guide, read tons of materials and sit for the test. WHY has VMWare made it to where someone who doesn't have a lot of extra money and cannot take off time to go to an authorized training??????? Does anyone know if taking an authorized course is manadatory?? That is what I have heard. If that is the case, I'm going over to Hyper-V where I can get the cert a lot easier.

RT

[scott28tt]

Here's the VCP5 page that confirms the requirements, including the training requirement:

http://mylearn.vmware.com/mgrReg/plan.cfm?plan=12457&ui=www_cert

Achieving VCP is more challenging than the process you went through to gain those other certifications you mention - which really explains in itself why VMware have such a policy.

[a_p_]

Does anyone know if taking an authorized course is manadatory??

It is mandatory (see http://mylearn.vmware.com/mgrReg/plan.cfm?plan=12457&ui=www_cert).

André

[weinstein5]

Yes taking an authorized course is mandatory -  see http://mylearn.vmware.com/mgrReg/plan.cfm?plan=12457&ui=www

The requirement to attend a class is reduce ability for someone to become a 'paper' VCP - it forces the candidate to gain some hands on experience with vSphere and in IMO it has done just that - My experience the vast majority of VCPs I know are all well experienced and can deliver in supporting a VMware environment -

[rtausch]

I'll stick to other certifications.  I already support VMWare at 3 clients and will not be ramrod'd into money and time I have never had to give up for any certification. Hyper-V - here I come. I've already supported 160 Hyper-V servers so all it will cost me is one book and one test, rather than the mafia-like controlled VCP.

[victorforde]

RT it is definitely a requirement to get certified. See here http://mylearn.vmware.com/mgrReg/plan.cfm?plan=12457&ui=www for details. You can self study, attend the exam and pass but you do not get VCP designation.

Once you are a VCP then when a new version comes out there is a grace period where exisitng VCP's can sit the new VCP exam without any course requirement. This is the only exception to the rule that I am aware of. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news...

Victor

[rtausch]

"""The requirement to attend a class is reduce ability for someone to become a 'paper' VCP""". Sorry, I have been in IT for 14 years and I don't buy it. I have a lot of experience and a class does not seperate someone from being a paper VCP. A paper VCP is clearly defined by NOT having hands on and the classroom world is not the only place to get experience.....in the real world working on systems is where......radical concept. The fact that someone cannot get a VCP unless they take an authorized class is a monopoly. It is clearly an insult to someone who has years of virtual experience.

[weinstein5]

Having taught for VMware it has been my experience when teaching someone like yourself with many years of hands on experience - on the first day there was grumbling about attending the class and they won't learn anything but invariably they left the class saying they had learned something -

[rtausch]

True, but that is regarding those who have the time and money to sit in a classroom. I'm not knocking the value, especially for those with little or no hands-on, but rather how VMWare has monopolized the training system. How a person proves that they are not a paper VCP does not come from a classroom, it comes from real world where they are asked and expected to implement or maintain an existing solution and can do so. That comes from real word experience and the folks with real world experience that don't have the time and ESPECIALLY the money are left out, that indicates in a very real way, a monopoly in the purest sense of the word. Sure, a guy can make 125K a year but if all the money is tied up in their business and there is no time to sit in a classroom because they are busy with virtualization projects, that shows VMWare left something VITAL out of the equation - in their infinate wisdom they did not provide a virtual classroom in THIS day of age?????.....well, you get the point. They are left out.

Sure, someone could say "well, if you really want that cert". But I say, I have tons of work with VMWare so I would like the cert but I, like many, do not have that much money lying around or days I can take off so to hell with it, I'll get my Hyper-V cert easily. Bottom line is that is still a virtualization certification and Hyper-V is gaining in the market.

[EdWilts]

The fact that someone cannot get a VCP unless they take an authorized class is a monopoly. It is clearly an insult to someone who has years of virtual experience.

Is it still a monopoly when VMware is not the only authorized training option?  You can go to many community colleges and take the authorized training for a fraction of the price - the links to these centers are on VMware's web  site.  But don't forget what the V stands for - it's as monopolistic as an RHCE, CCNA, MCSE, and many others.  Each of the owners of those certifications can set the requirement any way they want.  It doesn't pay to be upset, just like I'm not upset that my Brocade certification exam tested me on the size of the zoning database in an a release many years old and wasn't even supported any more.  We all play by the same rules and move on.

VMware is certainly aware that there are a lot of excellent admins out there that can't afford to be certified because of the training requirement.  They're making a business decision of trading this off against the cost of developing exams for which you can't get a braindump (like Red Hat did for the RHCE - an 8-hour exam that's completely hands-on and for which a braindump, if they even exist, will do you absolutely no good).

You are certainly welcome to take the exam without the required training.  You can advertise your passing score to your current or future employers.  It's up to them to decide if the combination of your passing grade and your experience is more valuable than somebody who has a VCP but a different experience level.

I have 7 certification diplomas hanging in my cube.  I've written good exams and bad exams.  I've taken training and self-studied.  Pros and cons to all of them.  I also have extensive experience in stuff I haven't written an exam on but worked with for 25 years and which got me a job here.

The VCP is just one tool to help others judge your skills.  Nothing more and nothing less.  Anybody that assumes that a person with a VCP is guaranteed to more than somebody without one is pretty short-sighted.

[rtausch]

I agree with everything you said except the part about how it isn't a monopoly. VMWare is STILL requiring a sit down classroom. And in the days when SERIOUS colleges like Stanford and Berkeley offer virtual classrooms, you would think VMWare could offer the same. That overcomes the time-out-of-the-day issue, if not the money issue.

[rtausch]

""" The VCP is just one tool to help others judge your skills. Nothing more and nothing less. Anybody that assumes that a person with a VCP is guaranteed to know more than somebody without one is pretty short-sighted""". Actually, if a new client expects the certification, then that would not be correct. They may have the cert as an impass. It may not be fair, but it is real.

[EdWilts]

rtausch wrote:

I agree with everything you said except the part about how it isn't a monopoly. VMWare is STILL requiring a sit down classroom. And in the days when SERIOUS colleges like Stanford and Berkeley offer virtual classrooms, you would think VMWare could offer the same. That overcomes the time-out-of-the-day issue, if not the money issue.

VMware does offer online learning.  I do believe that they're still time-out-of-the-day issue but they do overcome the travel time and expense.  See, for example, http://mylearn.vmware.com/portals/www/search/results.cfm?ui=www_edu&menu=search-results&searchtype=s...

[EdWilts]

rtausch wrote:

""" The VCP is just one tool to help others judge your skills. Nothing more and nothing less. Anybody that assumes that a person with a VCP is guaranteed to know more than somebody without one is pretty short-sighted""". Actually, if a new client expects the certification, then that would not be correct. They may have the cert as an impass. It may not be fair, but it is real.

My argument is still valid.  If a new client expects the certification, they're short-sighted to restrict their candidates to only those who hold a piece of paper over those who may actually know more than a VCP-holder.   They could simply be unwilling or unable to develop their own exams to see who the better candidate is.

I didn't say the real world is fair.

[rtausch]

I'll look into their online option.....to see if it can be taken in timeframes that fit the person studying or are set by VMWare and the cost involved. But at least it may work for evening training for a person who is too busy during the day.

[rtausch]

""My argument is still valid. If a new client expects the certification, they're short-sighted to restrict their candidates to only those who hold a piece of paper over those who may actually know more than a VCP-holder. They could simply be unwilling or unable to develop their own exams to see who the better candidate is."""

And that's what I meant....meaning, that they can be short-sighted but it still doesn't allow for negotiation that a person has when they are applying for a job in the field.  So in the sense of a job application, it does not apply as much because one can explain their experience. So a potential client really has no system for verification and they are falling back on a VCP because they don't know how to verify knowledge internally.

[scott28tt]

You're not the first person to discuss this here on the forum, and I'm sure you won't be the last, but Ed is right that it's the vendor's certification and they can set whatever rules/requirements they choose - you as an individual either have the choice to abide by those if you want to achieve the certification, or not.

You make some valid points around experience and employers, but that doesn't change things in this case, and if an employer or recruiter expects to see someone holding a VCP than again that's their choice. You have to weigh up whether VCP is for you or not, just like you did for your other certifications, and for heading down the HyperV path too.

[slaclair]

Ed Wilts wrote:

You are certainly welcome to take the exam without the required training.  You can advertise your passing score to your current or future employers.  It's up to them to decide if the combination of your passing grade and your experience is more valuable than somebody who has a VCP but a different experience level.

I would like to take off my VMware employee hat and echo this.  If a current or prospective employer sees that all they have to do is send you to a class to meet the requirement to have a VCP on the books then I say that's a winner if your experience is beyond that of competitor applicants.

OP, also make note that you're not forced to sit through the basics of the Fast Track or ICM course.  They now have the scale and optimze class to benefit candidates with a solid foundation of knowledge.  There were also similar advanced course offerings with vSphere 4 that met the official course requirement as well.

I see that there is a new series of certifications offered by the Virtualization Council for VMware, Xen and Hyper-V platforms that do not require courses.  I took the VC-VIP practice exam on the site and I would like to hope that the actual exam would be a little more challenging as it didn't rival VCP-level difficulty in my honest opinion.  I'm curious to see if it takes off with credibility in the industry.

[rtausch]

And yeah, I think a potential employer should consider sending someone to a VCP class if they have a way of knowing that the person they are sending has some experience or they decide to give that person the experience through a class.  But a business owner is sometimes faced with a client that has no way of testing or maybe even knowing what questions to ask so they then require an IT company owner to have someone with VCP certification.

Thats a caveat in that if a business owner or even someone hiring someone outright goes through the process of paying for the VCP which as noted is way more expensive and or classroom time-consuming, then if that employee leaves the company, money was spent for nothing. In the case of Microsoft, Cisco, and hundreds of other certs, if a person leaves the company, most likely the owner is out the cost of a book ($60), and the test money ($150). Thats a hell of a lot less than thousands. To remedy, all VMWare needs to do is offer a one-day crash course for those with more than 1 year of provable experience and then the guy who takes that one-day crash course can study further on his own and take the test when he feels ready.

But from what I see, a class takes either many days or many dollars or both, unlike other highly valued certs where a test system, a study book, and the test are all that are needed. I, like others, have provable years of experience and understand the products......it would be beneficial to have a fast track from VMWare that would take no more than a day  - or a longer term online in increments for under $500.  I don't see that. And this leads back to them not having an option for people who cannot afford thousands or many days of classroom oriented instruction. That is a monopoly......it is that, when affordability or convenience is not a concern for the vendor when it comes to newbies or experienced pros.

[scott28tt]

It's only VCP that has a training requirement, the higher-level certifications such as VCAP-DCA, VCAP-DCD and VCDX are really only achievable with a good amount of experience.

On top of that, VCP only has a training requirement for the first version of vSphere you gain it on, once you're a VCP you will always have an "upgrade" option to a newer version with no training requirement for a set period of time (normally 6 months).

The issues you are discussing are really all about choices made by the vendor, employers, and ultimately you. You might not like the choices made or the options available, but they are what they are.