VDI, RDP and Multiple Displays

[rlcramer]

I had been waiting for a while to get my hands on the final version of the MS RDP 6 client to use in our VDI deployment. When it was finally released, I realized that it wasn't all that I was hoping for. My biggest gripe - it only allows monitor "spanning." For those that haven't tried it, what this means is that your 2 monitors will behave as one big desktop. Essentially the RDP client has no way of knowing where one monitor ends and one begins, which is bad for things like maximizing windows (windows will always maximize across both monitors, and not just one), dialog boxes that pop up in the middle of the screen, etc. I haven't found any way to get around this using MS RDP 6.

I am wondering what other people do to get around these issues? I doubt we are the only people out there trying to do multiple monitors in a VDI scenario. I'm trying to purchase a few of the Matrox Epica cards to see how they work. But does anyone know of any other solution that allows configurable multi-monitor setups that can be used with VDI or over an RDP connection?

Thanks

Bobby

[sgrinker]

Didn't realize that I was speaking in code

Seriously though, let me know if I can be of any help. I have yet to get this to work on one of my Citrix Servers, or any server for that matter though. Still waiting on feedback after they sort out the compatability issue between Neoware and Matrox. Right now I've only gotten a working configuration on a VM worktation, but as this is a VDI forum that works just fine :smileygrin:

[sgrinker]

Massimo

Just checking to see if you have had any luck with this. I haven't heard anything official, but I hope they have the driver versioning conflict resolved for all versions. Let me know if you have any questions I might be able to help answer... or at least offer some insight on.

Thanks

Steve

[mreferre]

Steve,

I didn't forget to post. It's just that I have upgraded my e140 XPe just to find out when I tried to insert the Matrox that I missed the raiser card to install it ........

Neoware sent one (the raiser card) to me yesterday and I just had the time to insert the card into the e140. I have only attached the first video output and apparently the e140 booted up correctly and I could see the Matrox card in Device Manager.

I have also noticed the "little M" in the Windows tray but I haven't had time to do anything else. The next step would be to identify an XP vm where to install the Matrox software.

I though when you posted your append that the "little M" was supposed to appear on the XP vm tray though .... not the local thin Client OS. ?!?!

I need to work on this but unfortunately next week I'll be out all 5 days for an technical event......

Massimo.

[sgrinker]

Massimo

In my case, that is correct. The "little M" icon only appeared on the XP vm when connected from the thin client. Of course my thin client OS (linux) probably had more to do with that than anything else. Maybe with the XPe flavor part of the PowerDesk suite and configuration can be done on the Thin Client itself. I'm honestly not sure on that one, but I would imagine you still would need the software installed on the XP vm "client" machine. I have this thread on my "watch" list, so I'll try to keep my eye out for any updates when you're back.

Take care

Steve

[mreferre]

Thanks Steve.... appreciated.

Massimo.

[Elie-prof]

Massimo, it just seems that everyone is spending so much effort and $$(in your case Euros) for extra hardware / video cards trying to get mutli-monitor support to work with very mixed results, when there's already a VDI broker with support out of the box!

[mreferre]

Elie-prof,

I am very open to alternatives. The reasons for which we have focused on the "Matrox" solution is because it is:

\- T.C agnostic (there are going to be more thin client vendors leveraging it)

\- Broker agnostic (I can use the broker that best fits the customer's requirement)

\- it's supposedly very flexible (i.e. "4-monitors awareness" and not simply "an image spanning on 4-monitors").

So my questions would be:

1) do you know if the Provision Networks solution fully supports "4-monitors awareness" ? If so

2) are you aware of any ThinClient which would be able to support this scenario with the Provision Networks broker (that is that has 4 video outputs and that is integrated with the Provision Netowrks VAS) ?

We are trying not to use standard PC's to achieve this (but rather we want to use ThinClients).

Believe it or not the last concern for this customer specifically is the price (which I agree is not very common)

Thanks. Massimo.

[Elie-prof]

Massimo,

ok I see your point.

As for the Provision Networks VAS broker:

1) do you know if the Provision Networks solution fully supports "4-monitors awareness" ?

You can support as many monitors as you like with the Provision broker as long as the aggregate resolution of all monitors combined does not exceed 4096x2048. Those can be stacked either vertically or horizontally and can also be configured for left-handed users![/b]

2) are you aware of any ThinClient which would be able to support this scenario with the Provision Networks broker (that is that has 4 video outputs and that is integrated with the Provision Netowrks VAS) ?

You can use any manufacturer's thin client with XP embedded that is capable of having multiple video cards and put the Provision client on it. If you want a CE client, then you can use the Computer Lab client which as I understand they can customize with multiple video cards and comes with the Provision client from the factory[/b]

Message was edited by:

Elie-prof

[WR]

Has anyone found a thin client solution that can support a quad-head display? Every thin client I've seen with a PCI expansion slot can't support anything beyond a single port card (which means dual-screen).

I know the HP blade workstation client can, but it's not thin. It's pretty much a diskless PC.

[sgrinker]

I know that Chip PC has a model that supports 4 (Xtreme PC NG 6600 http://www.chippc.com/thin-clients/xtreme-pc/thin-client.asp?p=xtreme-pc-ng-6600 ), but the device still only does spanning at the moment just like the others. I haven't tested this model firsthand, but I have tested the dual head models. I've heard they are working towards a similar solution to divide the display, but don't have any idea on a release time frame.

Steve

[mreferre]

Ok Steve.

Here it is where I am now. I have just connected the 4 monitors to the e140 XPe-based thin client with the Matrox card (thin is "so to speak" in this case obviosuly).

As I start the XPe client I can play with the windows as I would do (I can imagine) on a standard XP PC with a quad-video card. I can drag and drop windows from one monitor to the other etc etc etc.

I then went on the Matrox drivers web page:

http://www.matrox.com/graphics/en/dispatch/products/epica/drivers_software.php

I have skipped the "Client" side since it is my understanding that the new XPe image Neoware gave me already includes all this support (in fact I can see the Matrox being loaded as the Video Card, plus I can see the "little M" in the bottom-right corner of my screen etc etc). I have then download the "Server" side software and specifically the PowerSpace EPICA + POWERDesk EPICA (for servers WITHOUT Matrox Hardware) and have installed both in the vm. I have downloaded the sw in the first column since I am only going to access this vm with an XP based client (i.e. the e140 XPe-based).

Also I have downloaded the POWERDesk package for servers WITHOUT Matrox HW because it is my understanding that the subject here is the vm and that vm does not have any Matrox hw visible on its own (only the client has a Matrox device).

All good I have installed the 2 packages and rebooted the vm (which never hurts).

As soon as I try to open an RDP session from the e140 XPe client towards this "Matroxed vm" I get an error that says: "No Supported Matrox hw is detected. Before Trying to use this software again, make sure supported Matrox hardware is properly installed".

While I can accept seeing this message while logging on from the VMware Console I would have thought that in an RDP connection from the Matroxed e-140 XPe client it would have detected the hw. Which seems not to be the case.

That's where I am at this point. I will try to ping Neoware even though I must admit this forum discussion has been much more informative than the "technical" e-mail exchange I had with them.

Massimo.

[sgrinker]

Massimo

Everything sounds good so far, and it sounds like you are at the same point I was for awhile. In my case with the Linux version, I was given an older verson of the Matrox software from Neoware. This was all due to the incompatability issue they found around the time of my last post. I believe that has all been resolved by now, but I can't say for certain one way or another.

As you are running the XPe version, things are just a touch different though. The thin client shows the now seemingly infamous little "M" icon, as the OS is able to support it in this case. I'm not sure what the software offers within the thin client OS, but I imagine it allows you to divide out the desktop for use within the local applications.

Going back to the RDP connection though, it might come down to the version compatibility issue again. I wish you could speak with the same tech I talked to, as he seems to be very familiar with this setup. Unfortunately though, he was on vacation when I originally ran into the issue. I kept running into the same message "No Supported Matrox hw is detected..." Which is the software/driver on the VM somehow trying to detect the hardware installed and configured on the Thin Client device. I'm not sure how exactly the communication for this is handled, but then again that's probably why they are one of the only vendors on the market currently. In any case, sounds like your best bet will be to get Neoware on the phone. That could be both good and bad, but hopefully you'll be able to get an answer soon. Keep me posted.

Steve

[mreferre]

Thanks Steve.

Yes the little M icon on the Thin Client OS would allow me to do all those beatuful things even though I have let it to its default that is "Windows will manage the displays split". With this setting I was able to move appl gui windows across displays and when I maximized that it would get maximized on the display it was at that point. To me this was enough to move on and try to connect via RDP where I started to see these issues.

Basically where I stand right now is that the RDP session opens but it is treated by the local Thin Client OS as a regular appl GUI so if I maximize the RDP connection it just get maximized on the display I put it instead of "maximizing it across the all four desktops". Which is I guess the magic that this Matrox hw+sw is supposed to do.

Anyway ...... I am waiting for someone from Neoware to show up (virtually).

Thanks. massimo.

[mreferre]

Steve (all),

I had a very good bump today on this due to a meeting I had with a Matrox techie.

Apparently it looked like the XPe image Neoware gave me had a downlevel Matrox driver that (apparently) was not compatible with the RDP 6 client that Neoware

asked me to install. I can't say for sure whether this downlevel driver would have worked with the RDP 5 client since I was using a new Matrox "server component" (PowerDesk) compared to the "client component" (Matrox Driver + PowerDesk) I was using on the XP vm.

To make a long story short this is what we did:

\- installed the RDP snap-in into the XPe ThinClient

\- installed Matrox "client components" (Drivers + Power Desk ver 2.3.2.6) on the XPe T.C. as available today on the Matrox download page (as opposed to the version 2.2.2.4 that shipped out-of-the-box on the Neoware XPe build).

\- installed Matrox "server components" (PowerDesk ver 2.3.2.6) on the the XP vm as available today from the Matrox web site.

For the records these are the files we have used for the above:

xp2k_203_0201_007_se_c_avc_whql.exe - this is the client components which includes the Matrox drivers + PowerDesk ver 2.3.2.6 (among other things?)

xp2k_203_02_006_se_sa_avc.exe - this is the server components which includes the PowerDesk ver 2.3.2.6 (among other things?)

Once we have done this we set the local (XPe thin client) PowerDesk to use 4 monitors in streched mode (i.e. the task bar spanning across the 4).

At this point we exited the PowerDesk local application and opened an RDP connection to the XP virtual machine (where we installaed the Matrox "server components") in full screen streched mode.

The trick now is that the PowerDesk application INSIDE the XP (VDI) vm is indeed aware that there are 4 distinct displays (despite Windows see a single 4096x2048 monitor stretched across 4 physical displays .......). Using the PowerDesk customization flags you can now have your applications behave like if your Windows XP vm is in a sort of "independent" mode whereas it is in reality a single maximized session running (stretched) on a local XPe Thin Client OS running in streched mode across the 4 video.

Apparently one CANNOT run the XPe Thin Client in "indipendent" mode and open an RDP session across the 4 video (which makes sense because you would maximize it on a single indipendent monitor). Also it seems you can't either run the XPe in streched and the RDP session to the XP vm in "indipendent" mode. They both (the XPe local Thin Client + the XP vm RDP session) need to work in "stretched" mode.

This "independent videos awareness" within the RDP XP vm session is provided by the PowerDesk application running in it (the PowerDesk application is aware of the physical layout of the videos).

While I have always thought that most of the quad-monitor users would rather use "indipendent" mode rather than "stretched"...... this Matrox folk told me that it's more common for these enhanced users to use "stretched" and provide monitor independence awareness via the PowerDesk tool. This apparently seems to be due to the fact that writing an application that needs to be "monitor-aware" is more challenging than writing an application that only detects the video resolution (no matter if it spans/stretches across 1, 2, 3 or 4 monitors) and make it "video aware" using tools such as PowerDesk. Don't ask me ..... I am just sharing what he told me.

Massimo.

[sgrinker]

Massimo

Glad to hear you got things working. Sounds like you went through at least as much (if not more) than what I did to get this working. Just out of curiousity, what is your opinion of the solution once you have it working? I think it definitely works as advertised, and does help to solve the problem. It all of course hinges on the DLL and the processes/services running correctly on the machine. Of course same goes for a lot of system components, so I can't really hold that against them. I haven't exactly had the chance to put it through any heavy testing though, so I'm not certain to see how it holds up when actually being used regularly. What was your initial thoughts about it, especially after the effort to get it working?

Steve

[mreferre]

Steve,

to me this is like asking me how much I like the new Barbie model Vs the old one.

To me what they did is fascinating but I will hold any official comment until next Thursday when I bring this to the customer site for them to play with.

At this point in time I am prepared to feedbacks in the range of "this IS cool" all the way through "Massimo, are you kidding?".

My very own impression is that this MIGHT not be suitable for a broker since you can "feel" the (performance) difference between a regular quad-monitor PC and this stuff. I am also ready to get rid of the ThinClient and use a PC instead if this is the limiting factor.

Stay tuned.

Massimo.

[sgrinker]

:smileygrin: LOL... Well personally I think the Malibu Barbie is much better.

No, I totally understand what you mean, this is simply icing on the cake in regard to the bigger picture. For whatever reason though, multiple displays have almost become expected around our firm. Not that I can exactly blame them, as I have three at my own desk

I also know what you mean with the feel of the performance, but then again this is still a new area in the Thin Client world. In regard to just video in general some of the Thin Client models we tested actually performed better than a fat client PC connected to another VM workstation. Granted that was while testing multimedia performance, so any number of factors could have been responsible for playback issues. Regardless though, it will be interesting to see how heavily the multiple display requests come in once we "go live" to our first groups.

Keep us posted on the response from your customer. I know I'm at least definitely interested in their feedback, but I can't speak for everyone else in this forum of course.

Steve

[Todd_LaBaugh]

Gents,

IT Pros specializes in this Multi Monitor RDP environments specifically geared to trading.

We work in both the windows and Linux world.

I'm happy to work with you on any related issues. Our consultants are located in NJ and can happily travel to the city.

Todd LaBaugh - IT Pros