VDI, RDP and Multiple Displays

[rlcramer]

I had been waiting for a while to get my hands on the final version of the MS RDP 6 client to use in our VDI deployment. When it was finally released, I realized that it wasn't all that I was hoping for. My biggest gripe - it only allows monitor "spanning." For those that haven't tried it, what this means is that your 2 monitors will behave as one big desktop. Essentially the RDP client has no way of knowing where one monitor ends and one begins, which is bad for things like maximizing windows (windows will always maximize across both monitors, and not just one), dialog boxes that pop up in the middle of the screen, etc. I haven't found any way to get around this using MS RDP 6.

I am wondering what other people do to get around these issues? I doubt we are the only people out there trying to do multiple monitors in a VDI scenario. I'm trying to purchase a few of the Matrox Epica cards to see how they work. But does anyone know of any other solution that allows configurable multi-monitor setups that can be used with VDI or over an RDP connection?

Thanks

Bobby

[davlloyd]

RDP provides the screen spanning (RDP 6.0 for Windows or rDesktop for Linux) but look at Wyse and Neoware for offerings on handling the multi screen awareness. If you like throwing away money also look at the Matrox Epica TC2 whcih also provides the multi video awareness

[alex_fad]

If your users are static in nature, once they get

going they rarely need to redo anything. If they are

mobile and you have different screen / resolution

configs it gets nasty as your windows will all reset

based on the lower resolution. When you move back to

a higher resolution they will be the same size just

in different places.

For both Actual Tools programs mentioned above this is not a problem - they support both absolute[/i] (pixels) and relative[/i] (% of desktop size) measure units while providing the desired window placement/size. So in case of "mobile users" it's enough to provide the size/position values as percent of desktop size - and windows will always have the same layout in any resolution.

[davlloyd]

Our users jump between Web based access, thin client and Workstation each of which can vary between resolution, display numbers and color depth with no issues. RDP is smart enough to handle the rendering to the target clients configuration it is just the application requirements that need to be considered.

[mreferre]

Dave,

any comment on this ? Did you try it out ?

http://www.chippc.com/thin-clients/xtreme-pc/thin-client.asp?p=xtreme-pc-ng-6600

I was just wondering if this falls into the "it will only span a single logical screen across 4 displays" or if it falls into the "it provides full quad-monitor awareness as if it was a PC with a quad-monitor card".

Thanks. Massimo.

[sgrinker]

I currently have a Extreme PC NG 6500 in my test group, which is practically the same except it only allows for 2 displays instead of 4. The same holds true currently with all of the other models, in regard to spanning within a full screen connection. I do know that they are working on solutions just like everyone else, but that's about all I know about what they are doing. I have to imagine that one of the major players will come out with some solution relatively soon.

I guess I should rephrase that a little... I have to imagine that one of the major playes will come out with some affordable and easy to implement solution relatively soon.

\- Steve

[mreferre]

I see ....

BTW this one seems to be the "good one".

http://www.neoware.com/email/neowareness/neoware-multi-displays.pdf

Although I must admit that I am still unsure whether this is generally available or it is just a pre-pre-pre-view... It's funny that I am trying to get in touch with the people at Neoware for this without much attention and their servers keep on sending me newsletters with these links ........ oh .. thanks Neoware .....

Massimo.

[sgrinker]

What's even better, is I actually have one of these (Native E140 Native Dual Display and Epica Software) from them as a part of my trial group, and I still can't get a straight answer on how to configure everything to make this work. My neoware rep has been trying to make sure I have everything I need, but then the tech just points me at the Matrox site to have a go at it on my own. I haven't been able to actually get the solution working as one would expect, but I have to admit I probably have not commited enough time to it yet.

If anyone has been able to get the Matrox Epica stuff to work, I'd be curious to hear any brief walkthrough you may have on configuration. I've installed the software at both ends, but it's still having detection issues. I was also told that I "should" be able to implement this as a test using RDP directly to a workstation.

\- Steve

[mreferre]

I sympatize with you ..... good luck.

Massimo.

[admin]

I was only saying this, if you choose not to go with a third party add-on and just take what you get out of the box. I.E. For mobile users hitting different screen resolutions, what you get out of the box probably is not going to satisfy them. The RDP will re-organize to fit one screen, when going to a lower resolution. When going back to a higher resolution, the windows will still be within the single screen boundary and the user will have to drag them back. If they are static in nature i.e. do not move around or the location they move to has the same config how RDP behaves out of the box might be good enough.

In my home office my virtual desktop is three headed 3840 x 1024. At night I access it from a thin client laptop. In the morning I have to drag all my apps back to the places I normally run them. But, I am use to it. I have been running it that way for 2 1/2 years and just accept it.

[sgrinker]

Update on my Neoware/Matrox dual head e140 saga if anyone is insterested. After going through multiple itterations of phone calls, updates, etc, the first demo unit I was using no longer would boot correctly. Eventually I was given a new unit to swap out, so that we could troubleshoot the Matrox PowerDesk functionality further in order to get true dual monitor support.

After receiving the new unit, I was still not able to get the Matrox software to function with the device. I was just informed today during a conference call with Matrox and Neoware that there is currently an incompatability with versions from the two, and they are now working to find a solution. That's about the extent of the details I know currently, but they hope to have a solution within the next few days. From what I can tell on the Matrox site (http://www.matrox.com/graphics/en/dispatch/products/epica/drivers_software.php) it may come down to a new requirement for rdesktop version 1.4.1. It looks like their current snap-in is only 1.4.0.

Long story short... for those that have it working, it will continue to do so. However, apparently any new units going out may not work until they resolve this issue. I'll post any follow-up updates here if anyone is interested.

[mreferre]

I have just received an e-mail from Neoware this morning stating that "a new XPe firmware is required to make it work". I can't say for the Linux variant your are using but certainly there must be a bit of integration issues they have found in general. I haven't put my hands on the stuff as of yet but as I am going to try the quad-monitor support I expect twice the issues you have had with dual-monitors ......

Thanks and continue to post please .......

Massimo.

[sgrinker]

Well, I'm happy to report I now have a working solution! Spent some time on the phone today with the tech, and we were able to get a functioning solution. The original problem still comes down to Matrox having changed some of their software/drivers recently. However, they were able to locate the necessary older files and get them to me for testing today. The actual issue with the new versions is being submitted as a bug, and will be resolved in the near future as well.

As for the solution, so far it has been working well, but I have to admit it's only been about 20 minutes since I have gotten things to work. Right now I'm connecting to a VM running from my host machine, rather than anything on our ESX servers. Regardless though, functionality would be the same.

Essentially the Matrox PowerDesk software is installed on the server (machine being connected to). Once a connection is established, the software is launched, and it must communicate through the remote connection to locate the Matrox hardware on the thin client device. As I am not completey clear on the mechanics, I am simply taking an educated guess on the process. That and the software will not actually launch if connecting from a device without the proper hardware.

You are able to then "split" the desktop using the Matrox software, and basically create your two monitor desktops. There's a good number of features within the application that allow you to control where windows launch etc. You still end up with a stretched task bar across the multiple screens, but the applications are responding to the boundries that have been set. I'm not sure how much this differs from the other "split monitor" tools others have posted about recently either.

I'll post more if I find anything major worth reporting on, but it looks like things are working as advertised thus far. I can't speak on performance or stability yet, but let me know if anyone has any questions.

[mreferre]

Excellent feedback. Thanks.

So basically you are saying that there is nothing to install on the "client" device only on the XP guest running in the virtual machine ? I was asked to update my XPe e140 from 1.4 to 1.4.2 firmware level so I guess everything that is needed on the TC is already in the standard (latest) Neoware build. I understand you are working on a Linux client though.

Yeah ... I too would have problems in judging whether this would be as good as a "standard" 4 quad-monitor solution or it has lots of limitations........ guess until 12 months ago the only thing I bothered was if the server I was working on was capable of doing 800x600 and now I am here discussing these things ..... go figure .....

Thanks a lot and keep this post live ......

Massimo.

[sgrinker]

Massimo

Well I should clarify a bit, as there are snap-ins for the hardware drivers on the client machine. Thing is though, the devices "should" come from Neoware with the drivers already installed and configured. It's just that due to the this compatability issue, we had to go through the motions of reinstalling everything on the thin client.

One other thing I should mention since my last post too. If you steal the session from the device onto a system that only has one monitor, the Matrox PowerDesk software continues to "split" the desktop into two logical desktops. This of course would be the behavior of any other desktop splitting utility with the same process. It's just an important note though, if the sessions will be moving between devices at all.

Also, one other thing to note in relation to the original posts from this thread. The full RDP 6.0 clients are now available from Microsoft, and I posted the link in the "VDI resources" thread. Obviously Rdesktop will have to catch up and get the features added, but at least it's still available now for testing.

\- Steve

[davlloyd]

Not by coincidence I have been quiet the last couple of weeks as I am spending most of my days (and nights) wedging everything into place. We are also running a three way model currently utilsing the e140 in native dual head, Wyse VL50 dual head and also the Neoware with the TC-2. We are using a couple of different models with this with basically a guest->client model with Wyse and and a guest only model for Neoware (with the TC-2 as well due to bad experiences with powerdesk in early assessments) to provide the logical dual screen experience.

Thing about all this though is in there own ways they all work from the technical angle. Give the decision to the user though and the decision is a bit more clearcut. A user wants clarity, flickerless, graphics rendering as provided by the average PC. In todays world 24 bit color is also a requirement with the wonderful world of Powerpoint being We also are going another step with increasing the depth to True color away from 16 bit currently. Watch this one as it is needed for some transparency effects and is not neccessarily supported by all.

So technically they all work, usability drivers though may require more assessment.

[mreferre]

Steve, Dave,

thanks for the insides. I have only today received the card and I am in the process of upgrading my e140 to the XPe build that supports this (and which I assume includes the local drivers/softare Steve was referring to).

No I have to put everything together and give it a try ... actually I am still missing one thing ..... the time to do everything !

Thanks folks .... I will post when I get a chance to test it out ....

Massimo.

[sgrinker]

Massimo

Just a heads up on the driver part of the process. It will all depend on what instance of the OS you have from Neoware. They may have given you the "factory" version that contains the necessary drivers for the Matrox card, or you may have to apply the driver as a snap-in. I've had to go through both methods so far.

I know for the linux version, I also needed to add a libc snap-in prior to the Matrox (multi-display) snap-in. However, everything was available from the Neoware site. My advice would be to try the bare OS first, and if things don't appear to be functioning then look for the snap-ins. I could tell when the snap-in wasn't there with the linux flavor, as the Neoware splash screen appeared in an inverse hot pink color when going through the Matrox card. Good luck, and I look forward to hearing your results.

Steve

[mreferre]

Steve.

Thanks for the heads up.

This is the file I have downloaded from the Neoware website:

Neoware_XPe_1_4_2_091806_e100_e140_DotNet_SMS_Multi_Head_512.exe

The name leads me to think it should have everything in it but .... you know.

I want to give it a try asap ......

Any hints for the XP vm Matrox software setup ? Well other than next-next-next-done ....

Thanks.

Massimo.

[sgrinker]

I'd have to agree that the name does sound like it's already in there, and it does match the naming convention I saw on the linux side.

As for the Matrox PowerDesk installation on the "client" (aka host machine) it is literally as simple as that. You won't really see anything until you are connecting from the Thin Client, other than a Matrox service running on the system. However, once you connect with the Thin Client, you'll get a little "M" icon in the task bar. From there you'll have to configure your settings for PowerDesk. There is both the "Divider" and the "Managment" portions. I don't have the device in front of me at the moment, but I believe those are the names of the options in the menu. Basically you'll want to "divide" your desktop into 2 columns and 1 row logically, and then you can play with the various options under the management portion. I've been typically setting the maximize options and the dialog boxes only. You can customize the dialog boxes to appear in the same display as the parent program, wherever the mouse cursor is, or to a designated screen. Let me know if you have any specific questions though, and I can pull up my box again.

Thanks

Steve

[mreferre]

I am laughing because I guess I need to let my sister (that is a Internet geek ... but does not understand anything about servers) to interpret this ........

Oh boy ... this is not business for a server guy ..... what one has to do for living .........

I'll play around with it although I'll get the final answer when I show this to my customer .....

Thanks a lot .... I'll let you know .....

Massimo.