Persistent Desktops with DEM and FSLogix

[Jubish-Jose]

We are running on Horizon 7.9 with persistent linked clone desktops without user data disk. We use Persona at the moment and has vGPU on desktops as they are used for highly intensive graphics workload. Majority of our desktops are Windows 7 and we are piloting Windows 10, but as everyone knows Persona doesn't work well with Windows 10. So we are planning to integrate DEM. But since DEM takes care of only Profile settings and not actual profile data, we are thinking of using DEM with FSLogix.

A couple of questions:

1) Is DEM + FSLogix a good solution for Persistent Desktops? I see many people mention them for Non-persistent desktop.

2) Has anyone tried integrating DEM and FSLogix and if yes, how does it look performance, functionality and stability wise?

3) How easy is it to configure?

4) Anything we will have to consider when we are using it on vGPU environment?

5) Is there a way to migrate existing profiles once we move to DEM + FSLogix?

DEMdev​ sjesse​ vExpert: Pim van de Vis​

[DEMdev]

Hi popvm,

Are you familiar with the Integrating FSLogix Profile Containers with VMware Horizon paper?

[Jubish-Jose]

Hi DEMdev​

Thanks much for responding.

I just read through the paper, but looks like it doesn't answer most of my questions.

[DEMdev]

Hi popvm,

Sorry, I meant to add the following notes regarding DEM:

• DEM is definitely supported in persistent environments.
• Migrating from Persona Management to UEM/DEM is described in this Knowledge Base article.

Adding VirtualSpence​​ in case he can add some color for the other products and the overall picture.

[VirtualSpence]

My thoughts inline in blue:

1) Is DEM + FSLogix a good solution for Persistent Desktops? I see many people mention them for Non-persistent desktop.

Microsoft mentions physical machines in the FSLogix overview, but it's not clear to me whether it's supported with Profile Containers, Office Containers, or both, or if/what the exceptions might be. I've reached out in an attempt to confirm.
FSLogix Overview - FSLogix | Microsoft Docs : FSLogix solutions may also be used to create more portable computing sessions when using physical devices.

2) Has anyone tried integrating DEM and FSLogix and if yes, how does it look performance, functionality and stability wise?

@DEMdev already gave you the link showing our integration testing of Horizon with FSLogix Profile Containers. We've also some some work with Office Containers: Best Practices for Delivering Microsoft Office 365 in VMware Horizon 7 | VMware

3) How easy is it to configure?

DEM and FSLogix are both simple setup, and have similar requirements. Both have an agent, both rely on network shares to store user data, and neither require any type of dedicated server or database.

We have all sorts of resources for DEM on techzone.vmware.com to help you be successful:

- Quick-Start Tutorial for User Environment Manager | VMware

- Profiling Applications: VMware User Environment Manager Operational Tutorial | VMware

- Mastering Dynamic Environment Manager | VMware

In my experience working with FSLogix, it has been easy to install and test with. That said, I'm using a clean lab environment and not trying to design for a production implementation. If you're using Profile Containers to persist the entire user profile (including user data) using FSLogix VHD(X)s, you should consider end users will have data in virtual drives that may be attached to VMs most of the time, making it difficult to back them up. Adding Folder Redirection to your model may address this by getting user data off of the virtual disks. With DEM persisting configuration data, Folder Redirection persisting user data, and FSLogix persisting large caches of Office data (OneDrive, OST, etc), you may be able to consider your VHDs disposable, which simplifies your design and reduces admin overhead.

4) Anything we will have to consider when we are using it on vGPU environment?

Nothing that I'm aware of, but I haven't personally done any work specifically using vGPU and FSLogix.

5) Is there a way to migrate existing profiles once we move to DEM + FSLogix?

We are doing some work on the various options for migrating off of Persona Management to alternative solutions, such as DEM + Folder Redirection, FSLogix, App Volumes, etc. There's a lot more work to be done before we publish anything, but I can share a few thoughts on this.
DEMdev already provided a KB article that walks you through the process of migrating from Persona Management to DEM + Folder Redirection. Early testing shows you can use that method, and simply add the FSLogix Office Container to the mix to help with Office Cache data (this model is particularly useful for non-persistent desktops that use O365). We've also had some success migrating PM data to FSLogix Profile Containers, but again we have to consider the long term management of user data. You mentioned moving from Win7 to Win10. Profile versions have been updated a lot from Win7 to Win10. MS has a nice table in this doc: Create mandatory user profiles (Windows 10) - Windows Client Management | Microsoft Docs
I'm not sure how all that would play into your migration strategy, but it's definitely something to consider.

I hope this helps, and would appreciate continuing the discussion here so others might benefit from what you learn through this process.

[Jubish-Jose]

Thanks VirtualSpence​. Really helpful.

I'm currently doing a lab setup using floating desktops with DEM and FSLogix. One question on your suggestion to redirect folders. If we choose to redirect folders using DEM, shouldn't we make sure that these folders are excluded in FSLogix? Else there will be duplicate data in both locations right? In another post, I was told that its not necessary, hence looking for some clarity here.

If I need to configure exclusions, I think I will have to configure redirections.xml as documented here: Profile Container content - FSLogix | Microsoft Docs

[VirtualSpence]

I staged this in my lab this morning as follows:

• Create floating assignment, W10 IC pool. These desktops of course are refreshed after each log off.
• DEM was configured to enable Folder Redirection.
• FSLogix was configured for Profile Container.

After logging in with a test user account, I verified the Profile Container was created and the user's folder was created on the Folder Redirection share. Using the logged in test account, I created a number of files and folders in "Documents", which is one of the redirected directories. Logging on and off several times, I could see the data being persisted from session to session. Navigating to the folder redirection network share, I could see the profile data was properly being redirected.

I then performed a manual attachment of the test user's VHD on a management system, and browsed the contents. None of the files or folders I'd created as the test user in the Documents directory were present on the Profile Container.

To summarize, my testing indicates Folder Redirection works with the FSLogix Profile Container without the need to configure FSLogix exclusions.
If you find different behavior, please reach out and let's continue to discuss.

[Jubish-Jose]

Hi VirtualSpence​,

Just to give an update on where we stand w.r.t the testing for DEM with FSLogix.

As you mentioned, it looks like FSLogix is aware about the folder redirection, which is great! Right now we are testing with some of the folders like Documents, Desktop etc. redirected and it looks fine. However, one concern I have is that when the data on redirected folders grow, I guess the overall performance, especially the logon time may increase. So we are thinking whether to separate the data or keep everything inside the profile container itself. As you said, I see two problems if we do not user folder redirection:

1) If the VHD gets corrupted, the entire data will be lost.

2) Backing up the VHD could be a problem if its attached to the VM most of the time.

So right now we are confused on whether to redirect the folders or keep everything within the profile container, as both appears to have pros and cons.

[VirtualSpence]

Hey popvm​,

I'm glad to hear your testing is going well. One of the benefits to using Folder Redirection is that you are simply providing a pointer to the operating system, rather than retrieving all the data. That is, when a user attempts to launch a Word document from the redirected Documents folder, Folder Redirection tells the OS to go get that file from a network share instead of locally. Because of this behavior, it shouldn't matter if you have 1 file or 1,000 files in the Documents folder. When you logon, Folder Redirection still tells the OS where on the network the Documents folder resides. It really shouldn't have much, if any impact on logon times.

All that said, some folders tend to be more active than others, so redirecting them may consume extra resources. If you look at the Dynamic Environment Manager Folder Redirection policy settings, you'll see recommendations:

Of course, all of these are just guidelines, and we recommend people always perform testing, as you are, before rolling into large scale production.

Thanks for following up, and please keep us posted on your progress!

[Jubish-Jose]

Just to give an update about the DEM and FSLogix as we are running this in production for almost an year now.

We had a setup similar to @Lieven where we had Horizon 7.9 with nVIDIA GPU and Persona. From there we are currently on 7.12 with DEM + FSLogix and persistent linked clones where we get a logon time of ~30 seconds. We are not using App Volumes.

Later I came to know that the image that we were traditionally using was NOT an optimised one. Now I am testing an environment with the following configuration and we have a few pilot users and all are happy. We are getting logon time of 10-15 seconds!

• VMware Horizon 2103 (8.2)
• vSphere 7.0U2
• DEM 2103 (10.2) - no AD
• FSLogix 2.9
• Windows 10 2004 OSOT image, nVIDIA GPU
• Instant Clones with Refresh on Logoff
• Folder redirection for Downloads and Videos
• OneDrive for Documents, Pictures and Desktop
• App Volumes 4.3 Writable on experimental basis, only for users who need extra apps (yet to use it for any users)

With App Volumes, logon time is almost a minute, whereas without it, its 15 seconds.

Happy to help anyone if there are questions.

[sandeep1927]

Hi,

I have the similar setup my folders are not redirected by DEM folder redirection rather they are done by FSLogix profile containers. What am i missing here?