PCoverIP Terminal

[gunnarb]

Just wondering if anyone has been looking for terminals that support PC over IP. I spoke to my Wyse rep and what I found out is that VMware hasn't released the APIs yet for PCoIP so they have their hands tied. The other problem they foresee is that the Wyse V10L (the terminal I was hoping to use) only has an 800Mhz processor and PCoverIP protocol requires a 1Ghz processor.

Just wanting to start a decision on terminals and PC over IP, feel free to join.

-Gunnar

[Stu_Robinson]

@tukavkin

Please contact your Wyse representative. WTOS-based clients such as the V10L do not support PCoIP protocol today.

Stu

[KenUnger]

Hi Bill,

Just wanted to highlight one thing for your playing with ... errr ... testing of the 930ND. (This also applies to the P20 and other PCoIP zero-clients). There's two encryption modes supported, but the default one out of the box is the slower of the two.

On the 930ND's web configuration page, go to the 'configuration' tab and select 'session' in the drop-down. On this page, insure that "Enable Salsa20-256" is checked and "Enable AES-128" is unchecked. Once you've applied you can re-connect your session. (Note that Salsa20 was only supported in the View Agent GA build).

Have fun. I use mine all the day.

Ken

[shaofis]

Where did you end up getting the firmware from? I've not recieved a response from Teradici yet and Samsung told me the monitor didn't exist when I gave them the model information.

We've several projects we want to start testing, but we've been sitting around waiting for the firmware.

[cdickerson]

I too did some testing of the C90LE today and also noticed that when running video at full screen it was choppy. What I noticed is that the VM CPU would only go up to about 850-975MHZ. When I run the same video on my laptop, the VM CPU utilization would go as high as 3.5GHZ and displayed perfectly! So it appears that definitely the hardware of the C90LE is limiting the performance. I did notice that the CPU speed of the C90LE is 1000MHZ. I'm a little confused though, because I thought ALL C class Wyse have the additional GPU to handle stuff like this. The website even states "Separate graphic accelerator for unparalleled video performance". Where is this performance? Is a MMX license or something required to unlock the additional GPU? Does Wyse need to release a patch to support PCoIP on this device? thanks

-Craig

[manfriday]

I am a little confused (what else is new?) about the Samsung 930ND..

Does it require a teradici card? or will it just talk to View with a simple bios upgrade?

[SWCS833]

The 930ND has the Teradici Hardware built right into it, and it just requires a firmware upgrade to use PCoIP with VMWare View 4.

I got the demo unit of the NC190 and so far, I am in love. This is the first demo unit of many I will be getting from vendors, and so far I have had no major issues with PCoIP. I will continue to test it and report back.

[hmartin]

Here are some findings from first tests with View 4 and a Wyse P20. All tests were with PCoIP and XP SP2 VMs.

There is no bi-directional audio support at this time.

If I start a Remote Desktop session (to a remote server, for example) inside the VM, the right-side Shift key does not work. The left-side Shift key works fine and both Shift keys work fine on the VM. Very strange.

The Window key + Pause (System Properties) keyboard shortcut does not work in the VM.

Attaching a Logitech ClearChat USB headset to a P20 causes the PCoIP server process in the VM to spike and stay at about 100% CPU utilization and the headset never works. The only way to recover from this state is to disconnect the headset, logoff the VM, and log back in. Simply disconnecting the USB headset to not resolve the problem. An analog headset works fine.

[KenUnger]

Just a quick note that audio input is not supported in PCoIP in View 4.0. It's actually primarily a limitation of the current virtual audio (devtap) driver in the VM, rather than of the client (P20 or Software client). It's been recognized as a high priority item for a future release.

[MrBeatnik]

We have evaluated the samsung unit, and would not be purchasing for the following reasons:

The power-on seems to be a bit troublesome for us at time. When plugging in, we can't get it to power-on unless we fiddle about (unplug and replug etc). This may just be the unit we are evaluating - there is a chance it is faulty, so we might dismiss this issue.

However the biggest killer for us is what happens if there IS a fault? Instead of replacing just a monitor, or just a PCoIP box, we have to replace the entire unit. Screen lifespan will be much shorter than a basic zero client lifespan. If we also want to upgrade monitor sizes across labs (21" will be commonplace soon enough) again we have to replace the entire unit.

We think that, although very nice package, it will be more cost effective in the long run.

[SamsungPCoIP]

Were sorry to hear your experience with our new PCoIP Monitor was less than stellar. We would welcome an opportunity to speak to you further regarding your testing. We are now offering a new 24" 16x9 model and I am sure you would be pleased to learn that our integrated device pricing is in line with external solutions. The value proposition of utilizing an all in one solution and the high quality LCD Samsung is famous for should exceed your expectation.

Please feel free to contact me directly.

[cookieme]

Hi

I've been reading about PCoIP with View 4 and the different thin client options. I'm considering implementing View for an accounting firm and I don't know whether PCoIP is of interest in this user scenario. The users mainly deal with "text" based applications, i.e. bookkeeping, excel, word and surf the web, listen to music over the web.

Should I be considering PCoIP and if so what type of thin client is appropriate? I've looked at Wyse S10 as an option, but I don't think that this client has PCoIP. Also I've read about the P20.

So far in this thread it seems that the emphasis is on multimedia and other graphic intensive applications. What would you suggest for my user base?

Thanks

[hmartin]

We have been running a pilot with View 3 and Wyse V10Ls for several months. All my users fall into the "knowledge worker" category, but many of them still use the Internet, and the Internet contains a lot of Flash content. RDP and Flash don't get along very well. Also, one thing I like very much about the P20 is I don't need a bunch of additional software in order to achieve a PC-like experience (e.g. Wyse TCX software, multi-monitor 'emulation' software). With the P20, "the Internet" works just like it does on a PC. Management with Teradici's PCoIP Management Console is a breeze, eliminating all the headaches and management overhead that full operating system (e.g. Linux and XPe) thin clients create. Finally, although I'm finding that the P20 and/or PCoIP aren't perfect yet, the experience is still much closer to a PC, which leads to better user feedback. The P20 is a good bit more expensive than the V10L, but not a lot more when you add in the V10L's TCX and Wyse Device Manager software and maintenance costs. Hopefully, the use of vSphere, View 4, and Intel Nehalem processors will lead to greater VMs per core densities, driving the overall costs down.

[cookieme]

Hi hmartin! Yes, my users are also "knowledge workers" and what you've written is very interesting.

I've got a couple of things to ask you:

- With the P20 I understand that it has hardware PCoIP, so do I need anything special in my server apart from "standard" View 4 install?

- The Teradici's PCoIP Management Console has been mentioned a few times in this thread. Can you provide any information on how it works, system requirements, any screenshots, video? Maybe I can download it somewhere to try it out?

- With the P20 do I have to get anything extra for USB redirection, audio output? Specifically regarding USB redirection do PDAs etc work out of the box?

- Finally is the P20 available in Europe and how much is the device?

Thanks for any information you can provide.

[hmartin]

With the P20 I understand that it has hardware PCoIP, so do I need anything special in my server apart from "standard" View 4 install?

No, nothing special at all for the server. Just the View Agent in the VM and nothing else.

The Teradici's PCoIP Management Console has been mentioned a few times in this thread. Can you provide any information on how it works, system requirements, any screenshots, video? Maybe I can download it somewhere to try it out?

See http://www.teradici.com/pcoipmc/Overview.html. It's a downloadable virtual machine. I ran it through Converter to get it on my ESX server. I got a copy by going to the Contact Us page at http://www.teradici.com and letting them know I wanted it. They responded the next business day. It requires them to set up a login for you. Wyse is going to have it available at some point, I think, but they still didn't have it last time I checked.

With the P20 do I have to get anything extra for USB redirection, audio output? Specifically regarding USB redirection do PDAs etc work out of the box?

No other software is required for this. That's what I really like. The TCX and VMware Tools software and View Agent all had to be installed in a specific order, so future upgrades were going to be a pain.

Finally is the P20 available in Europe and how much is the device?

I don't know if it's available in Europe. I think Wyse is still ramping up production. However, if you can't find them, any other thin client with the Teradici chip, such as the Samsung unit, is also an option for you. That should also help drive down the cost of these devices. The MSRP for the P20, I believe is about $499. I paid a bit less through a reseller for a small quantity.

[MrBeatnik]

Finally is the P20 available in Europe and how much is the device?+ +I don't know if it's available in Europe. I think Wyse is still ramping up production. However, if you can't find them, any other thin client with the Teradici chip, such as the Samsung unit, is also an option for you. That should also help drive down the cost of these devices. The MSRP for the P20, I believe is about $499. I paid a bit less through a reseller for a small quantity.

It is available in Europe, or at least for eval for now. Contact Wyse to see if you can get an eval unit.

I am surprised that the price for the P20 is $499. Teradici suggested that their (exactly the same but different colour) box, the D200, would probably go at around $400 and they expected Wyse to probably retail lower due to their position in the market - this was all pre release though so perhaps the mark has changed. Both the P20 and the D200 work fine, the only difference from one box to another may be the firmware (our Teradici box had a later firmware than the Wyse box).

When thinking about the price you should also remember you don't have to pay for TCX licenses (which always confused me anyway as I found HP boxes with no TCX equivalent to be as good or better, and therefore cheaper without an extra license), and you wont have to pay for a Windows license on the box (if you were considering the XPe/WES versions).

It is recommended that if you are doing PCoIP, then get a hardware box. Software to hardware should be better than software to software. The only drawback is if you do need to go to RDP for some reason, the performance of RDP on these boxes is nowhere near that on the non-hardware based boxes through View. It is more like a real RDP/VPN session... but the question would really be why are you needing to fall back to RDP!

[cookieme]

Finally is the P20 available in Europe and how much is the device?+ > +I don't know if it's available in Europe. I think Wyse is still ramping up production. However, if you can't find them, any other thin client with the Teradici chip, such as the Samsung unit, is also an option for you. That should also help drive down the cost of these devices. The MSRP for the P20, I believe is about $499. I paid a bit less through a reseller for a small quantity.

It is available in Europe, or at least for eval for now. Contact Wyse to see if you can get an eval unit.

I am surprised that the price for the P20 is $499. Teradici suggested that their (exactly the same but different colour) box, the D200, would probably go at around $400 and they expected Wyse to probably retail lower due to their position in the market - this was all pre release though so perhaps the mark has changed. Both the P20 and the D200 work fine, the only difference from one box to another may be the firmware (our Teradici box had a later firmware than the Wyse box).

I just spoke with Wyse in the UK and they told me that they don't have any eval units at the moment and that the recommended price for the P20 is £350 (~$560).

[MrBeatnik]

Shame - they obviously don't have many - we have one of the UK eval units here. I guess when we return someone else will get a shot! That's a steep price.

[gunnarb]

It's been awhile since we've had a post so I wanted to wake everyone up. I've finally come up to the top of Wyse's list for P20 evals, yea me. I'm supposed to get my eval unit next week and I plan on reviewing the hell out of it. If any of you have specific things you'd like me to test please let me know. My job is to determine if this will work as a desktop replacement using PCoIP on View. We are looking at replacing 90% of our desktops with these units and I want to find any flaw I can because it's my ass if I say do it and it fails. So send any requests you want, I'll see what I can do.

-Gunnar

[Stu_Robinson]

Hi Gunnar,

Glad to hear that you will be able to eval Wyse's P20. I'd be glad to hear your requirements for your desktops and see if there is anything that I need to include on the PCoIP roadmap. Feel free to contact me at srobinson@teradici.com.

Cheers,

Stu

[dturner71]

Ha! We're still awake Gunnar.

I was wondering if VMware or Teradici has a document they could share spelling out what features in the View 4 software client aren't available when using a PCoIP zero client in a soft to hard PCoIP scenario?

I'm personally having a hard time keeping straight what is supported in the different cases. It would also help me to know what the short term roadmaps look like, but I know that might not be something you guys can share. Let me know please, if the aforementioned doc doesn't exist I'll probably try to build my own.