New to VDI. Install on ESX question

[linnallen]

I am getting conflicting information form different VMware reps and inconclusive information from white papers and in need of a firm answer. I have a VI3 standard server running ESX 3.5. This server is running (2) Server 2003 servers and (4) XPpro VM's. We want to start migrating to VDI and thin clients. Can VDI/VDM run an ESX server that is also running server VM's? Would I have to upgrade this ESX to Enterprise? Some reps say yes and some say VDI cannot run on an ESX that is also running servers - only desktops. VDI FAQ seems to say it is okay to run on an VI3 infrstructure if I have room but doesn't mention if I have VM servers in addition to desktops. Long term decision is to install a second box dedicated to desktops (25-35 total); but short term says to migrate 10 initially and the rest over time. All help, thoughts, ideas, and concerns welcome.

[mittim12 · Accepted solution]

An ESX host is a ESX host and you can run Servers, Desktops or whatever you please on it. I personally refrain from mixing any desktops and servers for production but I can get away with that because we have no problems running out and buying a server. In our test labs we have a large mixture of desktops and servers running together.

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[lamw]

If you want to create a VDI Environment and utilize VMware's VDM (connection broker too), one of the requirements is to have Virtual Center, if you take a look at the differences between Standard / Enterprise, you'll see that VC and other featueres like HA/DRS that would be useful will not be included.

VDM Implementation requires VC, so the rep might have suggested that you needed an enterpise license with VC to implement VDI/VDM. Though if you decide to go with another broker, then you don't have to get an enterprise license. Also if you only have 1 ESX Host, then you definitely don't need enterprise license, unless you want to manage it thorugh VC or decide you'll grow out your VI3 Environment. I'm currently working on a VDI project that currently only has 1 ESX Host and we're using HP SAM for their RGS hardware thin-clients, but we've also allocated set of VMs to go through Linux Thin-Client to RDP directly to specified VMs. Though it sounds like you're planning on a long term solution with few addtional hosts, so it looks like you'll need the enterprise license with the advanced features + VC for managment ... least if you want to setup VDM.

Also Servers + Desktop VMs are just VMs, there's no limitation on how many you can create, you can create a mix of them or create resources pools or clusters to segment them off.

[rjb2]

Some reps say yes and some say VDI cannot run on an ESX that is also running servers - only desktops.

My understanding is that the "only desktops" restriction applies to VDI Bundles that include ESX Enterprise licenses. If you have ESX Enterprise that was purchased outside of an VDI bundle and you have capacity, you would need to purchase VDM connection broker licenses (packages of 100 desktops available).

[lamw]

Hm that's interesting ... it's even more interesting that you get different answers from the sales rep. I'm thinking the 100 desktop is the license for VDM on how many desktops VDM connection broker can manage. I've never heard that you can not have desktops in your VDI pool running on ESX Servers that have VMs that are labeled "server VMs", to them a VM is a VM, it's not categorized by production or test or server or desktop. I would contact them again and get that clarified, but I believe the restriction is on the number of systems the VDM connection broker can handle per license and that makes sense. In that case, you can have a mix of any VMs on your ESX farm.

[lamw]

Actually take a look at this page:

http://www.vmware.com/products/vdi/howtobuy.html

The 100 number is just the con-current connection which makes sense to the licensing of the VDM broker, it has nothing to do with what type of VMs are hosted together within an ESX Server. If you look at package 1 & 2, you'll see VMware Infrastructure 3 Enterprise Edition for VDI, which means you'll have the ESX Enterprise license, but the 3rd package does not, so I think they meant to say depending on which bundle you get, but if you get bundle #3 you'll need enterprise license as VDM requires VC and bundle #1 just has less hosts and #2 is pretty much everything.

[linnallen]

Ingram VMware licensing is telling me that they were taught that you can absolutely NOT run server & desktops together on an ESX box. This seems to be a direct contradiction from this VDI FAQ

Who should buy the VMware Virtual Desktop Manager software as opposed to buying the VMware VDI Bundle, which includes VMware Infrastructure 3?

VMware Virtual Desktop Manager, which does not include VMware Infrastructure 3 Enterprise, may be purchased a la carte by organizations that have enough capacity on their existing VMware Infrastructure 3 servers or by smaller environments that demand a VMware Infrastructure 3 environment that is interchangeable between desktops and servers.

My VMware rep has forwarded this question to the VDI team and I am waiting a reply.

My plan is to upgrade the existing ESX to enterprise. Buy Virtual Center. Buy the VDM 10 user bundle instead of the VDI bundle and install it my existing ESX host. The VDM bundle is 1/3 the cost and doesn't come with the ESX Enterprise version that retricts you to desktops only. Over the next 1-2 years we will convert all our desktops to virtual; about 30-35 total with some remote. At some point I plan to install a second ESX enterprise host as load is added and make it a dedicated desktop host. Any thoughts or advice to this plan is also appreciated.

[rjb2]

Here is a link to the Master EULA - see the bottom for the Virtual Desktop Infrastructure terms

They define a "Desktop Virtual Machine" as:

"Desktop Virtual Machine" is a hosted Virtual Machine which is running one of the following operating systems: Windows 95/98, Windows 2000 Professional, Windows XP Professional, Windows Vista Ultimate, Windows Vista Business, or Windows Vista Enterprise.

Keep the definition in mind as you read the section on VDI.

I don't think the Ingram rep is correct in saying that you can't run desktops and servers together on ESX. I do think he would be correct if he said you can't run servers on the "VI Enterprise for VDI" licenses that come with the VDI bundle. If you look closely at the pricing, buying the VDI bundle would be the least expensive way to get VI Enterprise, hence the restriction - you can only run "desktop virtual machines" on the hosts to which the "VI Enterprise for VDI licenses" are applied.

Does this help?

[mittim12]

I agree with RJB on the limitations on ESX if you buy the VDI bundle. Paragraph below is taken from the FAQ and states the VDI pack is a "special bundle" that comes with different licensing terms that restrict server workloads from being run on a VDI bundle. If you already own instances of ESX then you could simply buy the connection broker licenses and run what you want to on your host.

<dt>How is VMware VDI licensed? </dt><dd>

VMware VDI is licensed per concurrent desktop virtual machine. Unlike VMware Infrastructure which licenses per socket, the VMware VDI 100 Pack Bundle is a special bundle of VMware Infrastructure 3 with different licensing terms. The VMware ESX for VDI software provides the same functionality as Virtual Infrastructure 3 Enterprise, including HA, DRS, VMotion, etc. but the licensing terms restrict organizations from using VMware Infrastructure software within the VDI Bundle or VDI Starter Kit for server workloads. The VMware VDI Bundle enables customers to run desktop environments using the same proven VMware Infrastructure software they have used for their servers at an affordable desktop price. The VMware Virtual Desktop Manager software is also licensed for desktop use. For more information, refer to the EULA which comes with all VMware VDI products.

</dd>

[linnallen]

Thank you all for your responses. They helped alot.