Install a new build of Windows now

[Hawaiian_Ryan]

I've been running Fusion 22H2 with Windows 11 installed for about 6 weeks now. I started getting prompts to install a new build of windows after a couple of weeks. Is it necessary or recommended to up date the Windows installation every time they come out with a new build?

[Technogeezer]

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@ColoradoMarmot wrote:

Is that new?    

The part that slipstreams the new bits into the release doesn't work, but I was able to build the base ISO on my mac last month.

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I believe it to be fairly new. It doesn't come up for a Windows 11 (22000.xxx) build. But it now looks like there are changes for Windows 11 22H2 builds (22621.521) and later. From the summary page of a Windows 11 22H2 build on uupdump.net

[Technogeezer]

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@ColoradoMarmot wrote:

It's a bit complicated to change release channels from what I can tell, because of the 'unsupported hardware' situation.  For most folks, starting out with a retail channel build is going to be the best option.  Once you do that, at least so far, you're right - windows updat ejust works.

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Yes indeed. My Retail build Windows 11 just allowed me to optionally update to a preview of the next monthly cumulative update, just like it's done in the past for my other Windows Intel releases.  "2022-09 Cumulative Update for Windows 11 Version 22H2 for arm64-based Systems (KB5017389)". Which resulted in the build incrementing from 22621.521 ti 22621.608.

All's indeed working well in Windows Update land....

[Technogeezer]

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@LVGandhi wrote:

That means ISO still needs to be downloaded from uupdump. Can it be done from MACOS or from windows 11 VM I have already? Thanks Technogeezer.

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It's kind of a misnomer to say "the ISO needs to be download from uupdump".

UUP Dump doesn't download an ISO file. UUP Dump provides access to Windows release component files present on Microsoft servers. The scripts provided by uupdump.net use tools like DISM built into Windows (or open source tools found on Linux and WIndows) to download and "stitch" these component files together with WinPE to form the bootable ISO installer.

[ColoradoMarmot]

Ahhh, 22H2, yeah I downloaded 22H1 and then upgraded.  For folks without access to a windows workstation, the latter is probably the best option.  The 22H2 upgrade only took about 15-20 minutes.

What I've started doing is keeping a vanilla/blank/template VM built with just the MSFT bits and Firefox, configured the way I want it, but no other software, and updated on a monthly basis.  Then I copy that VM if I need to do something from scratch.  It removes the need for getting new ISO's (as long as windows update keeps working that is).

[btechit]

exactly - not sure why people on here are so afraid of just using windows update. 

[Technogeezer]

Windows Update has worked fine for me. I had the 21H2 Retail build installed and it got its monthly cumulative updates and any "patch Tuesday" updates as well. 

I've had oddities running Windows 11 21H2 with apps downloaded from the Microsoft Store not working. These oddities no longer exist in a fresh install of 22H2. I did not try a 21H2 to 22H2 upgrade through Windows Update to see if that fixed the issues. I'll put that on the list of things to try out.

Dev Channel builds are the only ones where Windows Update doesn't work well. Most people wanting to run Windows 11 ARM have no need to be running a Dev Channel build though.

[Technogeezer]

After hearing experiences from this forum, I will return and enhance the instructions to the document for building Windows 11 21H2 via uupdump from macOS to the Tips and Techniques document, and list the upgrade path as an alternative. 

I just did a clean install of 22H1 as well and it upgraded just fine via Windows Update to 22H2.

Thanks for sharing your experiences to make the document better!

[ColoradoMarmot]

Great idea - I think for most folks that's the least-friction option right now.

Your doc is a major asset to the community (and me - the Linux instructions have been a lifesaver).

[LVGandhi]

I have updated windows 11 from 22621.521 to 22621.608. After update I tried to clean using command
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth. But C drive size has not decreased. In windows 10, after doing dism clkeaning, I used clean folder C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution\Download and Some folder in C:\windows\servicing\**. How to go about cleaning.

[Technogeezer]

This is more of a question about how Windows functions than Fusion. I think you'd get a better answer by posting the question in a Windows forum.

Additionally,  because of the way Fusion manages virtual disk allocation on the host, a deleting files in the guest does not release space back to the host. Freed disk space in the guest will be reused however.

[LVGandhi]

Dear Technogeezer,

Thanks for your help. But I wanted to know whether problem is related to vm. In normal windows installation, update in same base ie like 22621, increases size of C: drive by a few 100 MBs or max 1gb. Here size of C: drive has gone from 18gb to 27 GB, Hence my question.

[Technogeezer]

You need to be a little more specific about where you're measuring disk space from.

If you are looking at what Windows is reporting within the virtual machine, there should be nothing special in disk space usage as reported by Windows with a VM compared to a physical machine. If your C drive has gone from 18 to 27 GB of usage, then Windows is responsible for that. The update process doesn't know that you're running it on a virtual machine.

However, if you are looking at the virtual machine's virtual disk usage from the Mac side, that's a different story. Fusion doesn't release disk space back to the Mac as you add and delete files in the virtual machine (which would be happening when you perform an update). Added files would be increasing the size of the slices/chunks of the virtual disk file. When the files that are updated in the VM are deleted,  the space is considered reusable in the VM as it would be on a physical disk. But the host (Mac) is not told to release that space. Instead, Fusion keeps the space allocated so that it doesn't have to go and find new disk space should the VM decide to re-use that empty space.

Unused space is only released back to macOS when a "shrink" operation is performed in the VM. That process typically performs a defragment operation in the VM to consolidate empty space at the "end" of the disk, then Fusion can cut back the size of the files that make up the virtual disk.

Unfortunately Windows doesn't like to do that kind of defragment any more if it thinks that it's running on an SSD. Which is understandable since a defrag operation is very write intensive, and intensive writes are the killer of SSDs. 

[ColoradoMarmot]

Major windows releases maintain 'uninstall' information in the guest.  You can delete those by:

- shut down the VM

- make a backup

- remove any snapshots

- boot the vm

- from the search icon, search for 'disk cleanup' then right-click and choose 'run as administrator'

- check all the boxes, especially the windows update cleanup

- when done, shut down the vm

- in vm preferences, click the little reload button next to the size bar, then clean up the vm

That should remove ~10+gb for the 22H2 update.

[LVGandhi]

Thanks Technogeezer and dlhotka. 

What is snapshots, where is it and how to remove it?

Anyhow I reinstalled vm. I did cleaning after installation and after upgrade. Now the volume after installation is 18.5 GB and after update it is 20.22 gb. These are in Mac. In vm C drive is now 23.6GB. After installation it was 18.8gb.

[ColoradoMarmot]

18-20GB is about right for a Win 11 VM.

If you don't know about snapshots, you probably don't have any (it's a feature you have to use).

[Woodyanna]

The Tips and Techniques guide is great, and I really appreciate the work that goes into it. However, I followed the instructions to download scripts from UUDump to get Windows 11 22621.521. I used a Windows 10 virtual machine on my Intel Mac to run the scripts. Everything seemed to execute fine, and I ended up with an ISO file that was between 6 and 7 GB. VMware Fusion recognized it as a Windows 11 file. When I selected it, configured the initial parameters, and chose Finish, however, I didn't get a Windows installation dialog. Instead, some sort of shell interface came up. I tried twice and got the same result both times. Does anyone have any idea what might have happened and how to get a version that works? Thanks very much!

[Woodyanna]

I really appreciate the work you've done to create the guide. I tried to post this last night but can't find the post or any replies now, so if anyone has already replied, I apologize. I followed the instructions to download the scripts to build a Windows 11, version 22621.521. ISO file and ran them on my older Intel-based Mac Windows 10 VM. the scripts seemed to work -- there were no error messages -- and I ended up with an ISO file that was between 6 and 7 GB in size. When I added it as a virtual machine on my M2 Mac, the Windows installation dialog didn't come up. Instead, I got some kind of shell interface. I tried twice and got the same results. Any help would be fantastic.

[Technogeezer]

I'm assuming that when you say you "added it as a virtual machine on my M2 Mac", you mean you ended up with a virtual machine configuration where the ISO was configured on the virtual CD/DVD drive, and that the virtual machine is booting from the CD/CVD drive.

When you booted the VM, did you get the message to hit any key to continue the boot from CD after you started the VM? (You need to move the mouse pointer to the VM window, click in it and then hit any key). Otherwise if you ignore that message or fail to click within a few seconds, the CD boot will time out and then the boot will try to use a network boot. If that times out, you will drop into a default EFI (firmware) shell.

I also have to ask a question. What is the name of the ISO file that was created (it should have the architecture as part of the name). Double check that you have an arm64 version of Windows 11. It's way too easy to mistakenly select an amd64 (Intel x86_64) architecture version of Windows 11.

[Woodyanna]

Thanks so much for your help! Following your advice, I was able to get Windows installed.

[Technogeezer]

That’s great news. Glad you were able to get it working. If I may ask, what did you do differently that made you successful this time?

I went back and reviewed the Tech Preview Testing Gude (the official version… not the unofficial Tips and Techniques guide). It doesn’t really say anything about the “hit any key to continue” prompt that appears once the ISO is booted. I glanced over that as I’m familiar with installing Windows from ISO media. Others that aren’t as familiar with ISO installation of Windows might not be aware of what to do. 

Time for a note in the unofficial guide.