VMware Communities
Benjaminbatwing
Contributor
Contributor

Does VMware fusion pro run on Mac M1 chip?

I recently purchased VMware fusion 12 pro and when I got the download link it was for intel based Macs. I have the new MacBook Pro M1, so do I need to return the software and purchase something else or will it run on my M1? Thanks

147 Replies
lensv
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Hi! 

I'm briefly acquainted to these "new" Windows problems, but I have two questions... 

  1. Are both Windows 10 and 11 included in the deal between Microsoft and Qualcomm?
  2. I haven't seen any actual facts about this exclusive agreement. Can someone please refer to any kind of dokumentation that clarifies and confirms the limitations?

 

/LS

 

Reply
0 Kudos
ColoradoMarmot
Champion
Champion

Microsoft has never made any version of Windows ARM available for non-OEM vendors.   Their EULA is quite specific that it can only be run on OEM hardware, and Apple definitely isn't an OEM 🙂

 

That's the only hard evidence of any Qualcomm agreement.  Everything else is just rumors.  But agreement or not, the license is specific - only OEM licenses for ARM Windows.  Until that changes, we won't see Fusion with windows ARM support.

 

Reply
0 Kudos
Technogeezer
Immortal
Immortal

But there is some other anecdotal evidence that could make you say "Hmmm....."

  • The list of supported chipsets for Windows 10 and 11 contain those from AMD, Intel, and... Qualcomm
  • Microsoft sells a Windows on ARM development box through the Microsoft Store made by... you guessed it... Qualcomm... and containing a .... Qualcomm Snapdragon CPU.
  • Microsoft has stated publicly that they do not intend to support Apple Silicon for Windows on ARM. The conventional wisdom is that's because Apple doesn't provide Boot Camp on M1 Macs, but consider that Microsoft knows through their telemetry that there are lots of people running the Insider Preview on the competitor's product and the Fusion Tech Preview. They can't use Apple as an excuse, IMO.

It does seem at times that Microsoft's actions may end up turning the Mac user base that wants Windows into pirates with a refusal to support on Apple Silicon. Arrrrggggh, matey!

 

- Paul (Technogeezer)
Editor of the Unofficial Fusion Companion Guides
Tags (1)
Reply
0 Kudos
lensv
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

So, if at least OEM versions (of both Windows 10 & 11) are available for ARM, where can I buy them? None of my dealers seem to have them. 🤔

Btw... Can anyone please post a link to those EULAs (both of them if they differ)?

Reply
0 Kudos
gringley
Hot Shot
Hot Shot

By definition OEM usually means bundled with hardware.  Then again with the well-developed Intel world Micro Center can sell the OEM version Windows to be purchased along with a motherboard and CPU etc.  Thus a dealer could have a OEM copy of Windows Intel in stand-alone form to sell.  In the ARM world there are few if any motherboards to buy.  Micro Center does not stock them, so no market for standalone OEM copies of Windows ARM.  

That said people in forums are claiming to get the Windows 11 ARM Insider preview to activate on M1 Macs either with existing keys, or by adding the Microsoft Store to the Windows 11 ARM preview then paying Microsoft $199 for the activation.  For me the idea of paying for an activation on a system Microsoft has clearly stated they do not support is money thrown away...but it does also seem safer to run on a activated copy than on just the In sider preview overall.

Here is the Windows 10 OEM license link - https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/OEM/Windows/10/UseTerms_OEM_Windows_10_English.htm

 

Reply
0 Kudos
ColoradoMarmot
Champion
Champion

There is no way to legally buy an OEM license for Windows on ARM unless you're an OEM.  They have never sold a retail license for Windows ARM, and do not sell separate OEM licenses like they used to for other systems.  They are simply not available.

At the present time there is simply no way to get a properly licensed version of Windows ARM for virtualization on Apple hardware.  

 

Working != activated != properly licensed.

Reply
0 Kudos
lensv
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Dahh! There is nowhere to buy any legal/official version of Windows for ARM, neither as a consumer or a professional, unless you are an OEM… Is that correct?

 

Thanks for the EULA. I made a quick search in the document, but I didn't find anything about ARM (nor OEM) there. Shouldn't it be some information about mentioned restrictions there?

Reply
0 Kudos
Technogeezer
Immortal
Immortal

Unfortunately that does appear to be the case that there’s no place to buy a Windows for ARM license. Microsoft is exerting tight control over the licensing of that product. We can debate the EULA all we want but that doesn’t change the inability to buy a license and Microsoft’s refusal to support Apple Silicon with Windows at this time  A vendor is not typically going to sell a license for something they won’t support  


IANAL, but the EULAs are such  that they don’t spell things out so that mere mortals can understand them. What I did see in them when I researched this topic tends to point back to running the product on a supported system. A supported system is one that meets the requirements in the  Windows system requirements documents which are very detailed. That document says, in addition to device requirements, that a supported system running Windows has to contain a supported CPU. That list is in a separate document, of course. That document lists the only supported ARM processors as those from Qualcomm and Microsoft (which are rebranded Qualcomm processors used in the Surface). 

My brain started to hurt after piecing together those interconnected documents. 

- Paul (Technogeezer)
Editor of the Unofficial Fusion Companion Guides
Reply
0 Kudos
lensv
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Wow! This is really not Chrystal clear. No wonder that there are different opinions about this matter.

 

The major problem might (after all) be the lack of retail versions of Windows for ARM. I'm still a bit confused though about the earlier comment by @ColoradoMarmot 

 

"Their EULA is quite specific that it can only be run on OEM hardware"

 

Of course it may be obvious if there are no other versions on the market, but where is the EULA specific about the hardware? Please don't get me wrong here, but I would really need something concrete to point at when I continue to argue with certain actors.

 

Reply
0 Kudos
gringley
Hot Shot
Hot Shot

I think that is because the EULA Microsoft publishes on the Internet is not the same as the EULA presented in the Windows ARM OS.  I do not have ARM so if someone can confirm that it would help.  I recall in the original discussions around this VMware stated they could not proceed due to the EULA that was presented in the OS during installation.    People in the competitors forum also noted PC Health Check tells them the M1 is not compatible with Windows ARM.  

I also think it is because people are realizing they cannot move forward with Windows on Apple under the current conditions and are fighting the inevitable...

Reply
0 Kudos
lensv
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

OK! If there is another EULA for ARM it would be great if someone could share a link to it... I certainly hope that I don't have to buy the license just for this piece of "digital paper". 😓

 

Reply
0 Kudos
Technogeezer
Immortal
Immortal

Sources on the Internet say that the EULA for a version of Windows can be found within the product at C:\Windows\System32\license.rtf

The following comment is very interesting after reading section "5. Authorized Software and Activation" of their EULA.

Successful activation does not confirm that the software is genuine or properly licensed. 

Which would counter the arguments that "well, I can activate it, therefore it must be properly licensed"...

Microsoft is the ultimate arbiter of this. Their public statements flat out say "no M1 Macs" with no further comment. Their own tool flags M1 Macs as incompatible with Windows 11 for ARM (even with the competition's product evidently). Posts in their own forums on the subject says "we don't support M1 Macs". Their chipset support list says "no M1 Macs".

I don't know what else to tell someone that is looking for any avenue to convince themselves that they can get a license. You're wasting your time trying to defend Microsoft. Tell them to contact Microsoft and see what they say.  And say that you'll stand corrected if wrong.

 

- Paul (Technogeezer)
Editor of the Unofficial Fusion Companion Guides
Reply
0 Kudos
lensv
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

@TechnogeezerDo you have a link to that public statement from MS? Something like that could be most useful…

Reply
0 Kudos
Technogeezer
Immortal
Immortal

Start here with his report from a well known Windows blogger:

https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-11/256250/microsoft-says-no-to-woa-support-on-m1-macs

Which points to the original reporting from The Register. 

Also consider this which broke the news of an exclusivity agreement https://www.xda-developers.com/qualcomm-exclusivity-deal-microsoft-windows-on-arm/

And this discussion on TidBITS: https://tidbits.com/2021/10/26/littlebits-crab-fit-insta360-go-2-mycharge-mag-lock-windows-on-m1-mac...

 

- Paul (Technogeezer)
Editor of the Unofficial Fusion Companion Guides
gringley
Hot Shot
Hot Shot

"Sources on the Internet say that the EULA for a version of Windows can be found within the product at C:\Windows\System32\license.rtf"

This is true on my Intel VMs.  I mounted the Windows 11 Preview ARM VHDX with files dated 12/11/2021, and oddly enough the license.rtf file was not present in the system32 or the sysarm whatever that was directory.  

Reply
0 Kudos
lensv
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Thanks for the links @Technogeezer 

 

Wonder what the great mystery about this EULA might be though...

Reply
0 Kudos
Technogeezer
Immortal
Immortal

@lensv I think that the EULA discussion revolves around the language in it about properly licensing the system. Examples include:

  • The agreements for Insider Preview releases say that you must run them on licensed systems.
  • VMware has stated that their legal team’s review of the agreements for the development tools necessary for development of VMware Tools indicate that they are to be run on systems properly licensed for Windows. 

Because of the quagmire of interpretation of the EULA, my discussions of this topic gravitate toward Microsoft’s stated positions about licensing (hardware OEM only) and  support (no M1s). Those are more clearly understood. 
VMware is taking a very conservative stand on this. This is not unheard of - there have been numerous times that VMware has taken the position that they will not provide support for products that violate other vendors’ licensing agreements (e.g. they will not support Hackentoshes or VMs containing macOS versions that Apple does not allow to be virtualized). 

- Paul (Technogeezer)
Editor of the Unofficial Fusion Companion Guides
Reply
0 Kudos
ColoradoMarmot
Champion
Champion

Microsoft doesn't sell licenses for Windows ARM.   Full stop.  There is literally no way to buy one other than bundled with a system, and that license is locked to that specific hardware it was sold on, from only a handful of vendors.   It's not like the old days where they sold OEM / system builder licenses to every mom and pop shop in a strip mall, who then re-sold them online.  There's no point trying to parse things, because it's moot.  Seriously.  If VMWare's legal team couldn't find a way to license Windows ARM to run on Fusion, there isn't one right now.

Until and unless they decide to do so, everyone is stuck with running 'grey market' licenses.  To date, Microsoft hasn't taken legal action against anyone (Parallels themselves would be the natural choice, and that hasn't happened), but that's a risk.  Each person/company has to evaluate that risk for themselves.  People playing games on their mac is one thing (probably low).  An enterprise with an E5 license is another (wouldn't want to find out).  A virtualization company who's whole existence is around Windows on mac is yet another (i.e. if they don't do it, they risk going out of business).  A virtualization company that has a multi-billion dollar business is even more different (definitely won't do it).

Hopefully the rumors are right, the exclusivity will expire, and we'll be good to go.  Until then, there is no zero-risk option, so given the facts, everyone has to make their own decision.

Reply
0 Kudos
lensv
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Yes, let's all hope for the best.

Reply
0 Kudos
lensv
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

One more thing, just out of curiosity... Will support for uploading virtual machines from Mac to vSphere end here (even if a valid Windows version for M1 will be released)?

Reply
0 Kudos