SMB SAN Upgrade Ideas

[jones_matt]

We're forklifting our MSA1500 for something new to go along with our vSphere 4 upgrade this summer. I'm hoping to dramatically increase my backup speed when using VCB/Veeam Backup, and spread out my VMs better across more LUNs (currently at 3). Right now Veeam Backup is showing maybe 40-50MB/sec max using VCB. I would like to be able to backup more than once per day, or even replicate to another building using Veeam Backup. Production VMs don't seem to be slowed down by the SAN. I don't think they come close to hitting the max of the SAN even at our peek times. If it matters, we're a K-12 school district.

Specs:

Need 3.6TB (~7.2 TB raw) at RAID 10 - SAS - Production VMs - Cut into 4+ LUNs for VMs per LUN best practices

Need 2.5TB (~2.7 TB raw) at RAID 5 - SATA - Backups

Have existing dual domain setup with 4Gb FC switches and HBAs, but open to iSCSI

Supports 30 server VMs, 15 VDI VMs. No exchange or heavy SQL usage.

Connected to 4 ESX hosts, 1 backup host (Veeam/VCB)

5 MB/s average, 20MB/sec peak (pulled from VC 1 day stats, excludes backup activity)

3 year warranty, no support contract required

Budget:

$25,000

I'm really happy with the MSA2324fc so far, at least on paper. Lots of spindles and storage for a decent cost. However, I can't seem to find any information on people using it and what pain points they hit with it. It's not on the HCL yet for vSphere 4.0, but I imagine it will be soon.

Looking for some ideas on vendors to contact and specific products to look at that would fit the specs and budget. Open to other creative ideas or modifications to the specs to fit our needs as well. Any tips for negotiating with vendors for the best price?

Thanks!

[AndreTheGiant]

The budget is small , you have to release some requirement.

For example no iSCSI, so AX4 could fit (maybe).

Or use only iSCSI ad you can have several choice.

Andre

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[kjb007]

Dell MD3000i would be a good option here as well. It is iSCSI, if you're going that route. That should come in lower than your budget allows.

-KjB

VMware vExpert

[jones_matt]

I am open to iSCSI, but it would have additional expenses of a new Cisco switch (or two), and probably a dual port NIC or iSCSI HBA for each server. Most SAN hardware in my price range is 4Gb FC or iSCSI, so I imagine I could get more value if I used my existing FC equipment. Is that true/false?

The backup storage spec somewhat optional. I think it would be faster and less stress on the production VM disk to backup locally, then copy the backup to my offsite disk. Maybe I worry too much about the backups affecting the storage.

[kjb007]

I have heard good and bad about the MSA devices. Personally speaking, I prefer FC, and if you have an existing infrastructure of FC, then that would be good to stick with. I would use the HCL, and stick with what is in there, as opposed to waiting for it to be added into it. It may be added shortly enough, but you never know when.

-KjB

VMware vExpert

[AndreTheGiant]

I am open to iSCSI, but it would have additional expenses of a new Cisco switch (or two), and probably a dual port NIC or iSCSI HBA for each server.

Maybe. For Equallogic (for example) is true.

But for MD3000i you have only to connect it to 2 isolated switches, without particular configuration. Is very simple (is you follow the installation guide).

Andre

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[jones_matt]

We're not purchasing until July 1, so I have a bit to wait on the HCL for whatever new device we purchase. Looks like the MD3000i is already on the HCL for ESX 4, which is good.

I have a feeling that the MSA1500 will never see the HCL for ESX 4. It took a number of months to appear on the HCL for ESX 3.5.

[JohnADCO]

MD3000i? A couple of cheapo gig switches, a couple of cheapo gig nics and your in business for sure.

[Texiwill]

Hello,

I went from a MSA1000 to a IBM DS3400. I stuck with FIbre and am in the middle of going to 4GB switches.

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[SunnyC]

Hi,

You might want to consider IBM's DS3300 as well. iSCSI if you decided to go with that route and under your budget.

[jones_matt]

The MD3000i seems decent, but we've standardized on Cisco everywhere, and I can't imagine using cheap switches in our datacenter for storage traffic. Gigabit Cisco switches would sure eat a chunk of cash that would otherwise go to more disks. This is a problem with any iSCSI device.

One thing I don't like about the DS3400 is that it's only 12 disks per enclosure. The MSA2324fc has 24 disks per enclosure. Aside from that, they're both seem very capable. It's hard to estimate pricing for Dell/Eql, EMC, etc, so I've only looked briefly at those offerings.

I need at least 4 LUNs to keep within best practice on VM to LUN counts, and leave room for growth. To get decent performance out of 4 LUNs, I think I'm going to need another enclosure to keep the spindle count up.

I keep forgetting is that you can usually create multiple LUNs out of a single disk group with these newer SAN controllers. How well does that work with this SMB equipment? Would it be reasonable to create 4 LUNs from a group of 12 disks?

[kjb007]

Depends on what you are running on top of them. I assume you will use one RAID group of RAID5 or 6 in this case. I would keep a spare with RAID 5, or go with RAID6. Performance should be sufficient for most workloads, but high I/O demands more spindles. Would also depend on the type of disk you put in the system as well.

-KjB

VMware vExpert

[maethlin4]

Let me know what you end up going with. I am looking at an almost identical situation (mostly agonizing between an iSCSI MD3000i solution or an Infortrend FC-to-SATA solution (which I've used before.)

[jones_matt]

How did you like the Infortrend kit? Positives/negatives?

[Jeff07]

I am using MSA2324 and other MSA's in the FC and ISCSI range.

With what you want i fully recommend the FC MSA. Betwen my clients we have 6 installed with no issue at as far as performace. Great stroage SAN's

They also have great IOp's and price.

Contact HP and get them to take you to one of there Demo labs so you can see these things under load. HP have demo labs just for this type of thing all over the world.

[Twingirls]

HP has demo locations all over the world??? Sounds like and HP guy to me. I have used HP EMC Netapp and Dell all have unique benefits. However, as my IT director says, set it and forget it with EMC......

[Jeff07]

Not a HP guy.

I work for a reseller that supports HP, EMC and IBM.

Its just that I have installed so many MSA's and EVA's with no issues at all. So just going with what I know and what has worked for me.

All storage devices have their own benefits and pitfalls. The question was "SMB SAN Upgrade Ideas" this is just my idea from multiply installs.

Cheers

Jeff

[maethlin4]

jones.matt wrote:

How did you like the Infortrend kit? Positives/negatives?

Dang, only now noticed this question.

While I remained at that company, it worked flawlessly for me.  No problems whatsoever, decent performance, easy to set up, never even had to call support so no idea what their support is like.  So for a year at least, no issues.

I did hear later (couple years after I left) that the new IT guy had some problems but have no idea what the nature of the probs were, whether they were caused by his lack of expertise or the hardware itself, etc.