Need advice on new virtual infrastructure (dual core, sas...)

[nikhoff]

Hello,

I am going to use VMWARE (ESX Server) in order to virtualize existing servers and also to add new servers. I am completely new to virtualization stuff and therefore would be glad to receive any advice, point of view about my future plan.

Current architecture :

80 Users

Network : 100Mbit

OS : Win 2000 Server SP4

\- 1 Print Server (Win2000 SP4, 512Mb Ram, CPu : P3 600Mhz)

\- 1 Applications Server (Win 2000 Sp4, 512Mb ram, CPU : P3 600Mhz)

Future Architecture :

\- 1 IBM Server X3650

\- CPU : 2 x DualCore 5160 3.0Ghz

\- Ram : 8Gb

\- HD : 3x73Go(SAS) or 4x73Go(SAS) with RAID5

\- NIC : at least 2

There will be at least 5 VM :

1st VM : Print Server (16 printers), Win 2003 Server, 1Gb RAM

2nd VM : Applications servers, Win 2003 Server, 1Gb ram

3rd VM : Database Server (Oracle 10G, 10 users only), 2Gb Ram

4th VM : Small Applications Server, 1Gb ram

5th VM : Test Server, 1Gb ram

(6th VM: A web server is scheduled but for next year, should be 1Gb ram)

I have now some questions and would be glad to have some advice, thanks

1) What do you think about the whole (hardware/software repartition) ?

2) Regarding host, how much ram would you recommend : 1Gb ? more ? less ?

3) I am planning to use RAID5 for the whole (host & guests), is it a good idea ?

4) Regarding 1st VM and 2nd VM, I have planned to put 1Gb Ram for each server, but I am wondering if it will really be useful since initial servers (2000 sp4) were having only 512Mb ram (and were working well), a friend advised me to use 1Gb ram for each 2003 server , he told me 2003 server use more ram than 2000 Server. What do you think ?

5) Is it better to use 64-bit version of Win 2003 ? For 32-bit applications, will it work well on 64-bit 2003 Server ?

6) For the network, I am planning to use 2 VM per physical nic, will it be ok ? Can I use more than 2 VM per physical nic ? What is the best choice to do ? What is the maximum VM per nic I can use before having network congestion ?

7) What is the best backup strategy would you recomment regarding VM ?

😎 Now maybe a weird question, but sometimes I was wondering if the VMware server free edition could also do the job in this case, with same performance ? What is the main difference between the free server version and Esx version ?

Thanks in advance for your advice and answers

Regards,

Nic

[Leo_Smith]

RAM RAM RAM I am running ESX with HP dl360 g4 max mem is 12 gig

I am never CPU limited ALWAYS Memory Limited

When I can I will buy the dl360 g5 that can handle 32 gig

Dual cores are nice because each cpu is counted as 1 Quad core would be even better.

[Leo_Smith]

point number 4 use the leaste amount of memory that it will run. I have heard of people using 128 k to run print servers on win2k boxes. If it does not run well you can always add more memory to the vm from the console.

[VirtualNoitall · Accepted solution]

2) Regarding host, how much ram would you recommend : 1Gb ? more ? less ?

-> for your host RAM, total the amount of RAM you need for the vms you have plus the ones you plan on having. Then add about a GB for the Host.

3) I am planning to use RAID5 for the whole (host & guests), is it a good idea ?

->Based on your numbers RAID 5 should be fine. I would look into a battery for enabling write cache on your controller. This made a huge difference in our first ESX hosts that used local RAID5 disks.

4) Regarding 1st VM and 2nd VM, I have planned to put 1Gb Ram for each server, but I am wondering if it will really be useful since initial servers (2000 sp4) were having only 512Mb ram (and were working well), a friend advised me to use 1Gb ram for each 2003 server , he told me 2003 server use more ram than 2000 Server. What do you think ?

->you will be surprised how little memory you actually need; especially with the small number of users you are talking about. We don't usually go below 512 but you can experiment to see how little you can get away with.

5) Is it better to use 64-bit version of Win 2003 ? For 32-bit applications, will it work well on 64-bit 2003 Server ?

-> I don't really see an advantage for you with the small vms you will be using.

6) For the network, I am planning to use 2 VM per physical nic, will it be ok ? Can I use more than 2 VM per physical nic ? What is the best choice to do ? What is the maximum VM per nic I can use before having network congestion ?

-> I would measure your current network utilization to get a sense for usage. You are only 100mb so you could run into issues with too many vms per nic but it will really come down to the network load of your vms. there is no hard and fast rule for vms per nic. It all comes down to total usage over the pipe.

7) What is the best backup strategy would you recomment regarding VM ?

-> how do you do backups today?

😎 Now maybe a weird question, but sometimes I was wondering if the VMware server free edition could also do the job in this case, with same performance ? What is the main difference between the free server version and Esx version ?

-> I was thinking this exact same thing as I was reading through your scenario. VMware Server will not perform as well as ESX but should easily be able to handle the needs of smaller network such as yours. It will require less of a learning curve, be cheaper and probably leave you just as happy. You can also buy support for VMware Server so if you run into any issues you can initiate a call with VMware. You also always have the forums for support

Good luck however you decide to go!

[FredPeterson]

Sounds like you aren't going to use any kind of shared storage and use only a local file system?

In that case I would go with a configuration of 2 x 73GB RAID 1 for the OS partition and fill the remaining 6 SAS bays if you can afford it.

Get more RAM, you've got 12 slots available, might as well fill some of them up now, will prevent you from having to have host downtime if you need to upgrade the RAM in the future. Pop it to 8 2x2GB modules for 16GB of RAM. Since you're only getting one system with local storage, you may want to consider implementing memory mirroring also. Jacks the price, but will save your butt if memory goes bad or whatever. 12 2GB modules for 12GB mirrored RAM, Oracle is a memory pig, you'll want to give it as much as you can.

You can put many VM's on a single pNIC, but again it depends on the kind of network bandwidth requirement. You specifically state 100Mb (ouch!) so it might not hurt to get 2 dual port Broadcom's. The onboards use for the COS and the other two as vSwitches.

I run a fairly heavy use print server that prints Patient After Visit summaries after exam room visits with over 200 printers and it has only 384MB RAM and works just fine. The jobs are even processed ON the print server.

[nikhoff]

Leo Smith[/u] : Thanks for your advice regarding memory, at the moment, regarding CPU, I am still wondering if I'd better choose 2xDual core or 1XQuadcore.

VirtualNoit all[/u]:

Thanks for your detailed answer.

2)"-> for your host RAM, total the amount of RAM you need for the vms you have plus the ones you plan on having. Then add about a GB for the Host."

What you call "host RAM" is the whole the physical server (ibm x3650) , right ? and the "Host" is just Esx Server ?

7) Our current backup strategy is done through BackupExec with 80Gb DLT tape, it takes about 8 hours each night. Since our tape is nearly full I guess we will use other & faster backup device, what could be another solution ?

FredPeterson[/u]:

We already use a file server for shared storage, but this server won't be virtualized. About hard disk, I am afraid we won't be able to fill all the bays right now.....Thanks for your advice regarding memory.

Thanks also for your testimony about your print server, I will therefore set less memory for print server .

[dadalowg]

Our current backup strategy is done through BackupExec with 80Gb DLT tape, it takes about 8 hours each night. Since our tape is nearly full I guess we will use other & faster backup device, what could be another solution ?

--Look in to Viziocores ESXRanger PRo. esXpress by PHD is also a good VBA based backup solution and is super-fast.

[VirtualNoitall]

Yes, host memory refers to the ESX host or the host running VMware Server.

Also, be sure to recognize deserving posts, if there are any, as helpful or correct.

[Leo_Smith]

if you buy a machine with 1 quad core but sockets for 2 you can always add another later.

[FredPeterson]

if you buy a machine with 1 quad core but sockets for

2 you can always add another later.

In my opinion the idea behind dual CPU (prior to virtualization) was that if one of the CPUs dies, the server isn't dead until a replacement arrives. You reboot and off you go on the other CPU.

Even if the utilization is 10% combined between the two CPUs.

[petedr]

We use esxpress in our environment for VM backups, works great, I would recommend giving it a try.

[Leo_Smith]

Good point Fred!

I am trying to remember a CPU failing though... I have a small shop only like 40 servers (down to 28 now because of VMware) so I can not say CPUs do not fail. I better shut up now or 1 will!

[nikhoff]

Thanks everybody for your answers and advice.

[glynnd1]

Fred, that has not being my experience. I've had a server refuse to boot when it had a failed CPU - in this case the CPU had failed due to the heat sink becoming lose.

[Gui]

my experience is that adding a cpu later is a bad thing. other batches or they are not the same. i always choose 2 cpu's. you can choose quid-core with a lower cpu speed. it's always better than four cores less.

put in 2gb RAM modules and take as much as you can afford. but remember you are always short on memory