Help me decide - DELL/EMC AX150/150i or IBM DS4700 FC

[tdubb123]

I currently am trying to decide how to start a ESX infrastructure on my network. We already have a IBM DS 4700 using FC drives but planning to add another shelf for SATA only.

Then i have another option to buy a DELL/EMC Ax150 or 150i.

what do you think

[caciolli]

I am a big fan of IBM storage systems and the question could be :

Adding another brand to my infratructure requires more knowledge and zoning can become an overhead.

Adding a new shelf to the DS4700 is simpler but you add i/o load to the controllers.

DS4700 is a very poweful system if your engines (controllers) are not at full load, go with a new SATA shelf.

You also mix sata and FC drives in the same shelf (GREAT IBM!)

[dconvery]

Take a look at the HP Enterprise Virtual Array too.

[jjohnston1127]

The cost to add an EXP810 unit to your DS4700 plus the $6000 (list) price for the FC/SATA Intermix for your SAN might be cheaper than going with another solution.

The SATA drives are pretty slick. A couple of months ago IBM released 750GB E-DDM drive support so you can essentially have 12 TB of storage per cabinet.

I'm a big IBM advocate though, so this is just my opinion. I don't know anything about DELL hardware/storage.

I do know that at a trade show EMC's SAN caught on fire and they had to evacuate the building for a little while

[TomHowarth]

In my opinion the Ax150 is a little light weight for anything other than a test environment or a very lightly used impliemention, as you have already got your major investment in IBM, Personally I would jsut extend that by adding a shelf.

Please consider the awarding of points for correct or helpful answers

[tdubb123]

Why would people want to pay $6k for the additional intermix license with sata drives when they can just stick with FC drives?

[christianZ]

Maybe when they need only more capacity and the performance isn't an issue?

How many fc drives can you get for 6000 $?

[jjohnston1127]

At my company's price the drives are $1400 a piece. So, 3.5 drives. That's assuming you're using 146gb drives because that's the drive price.

[tdubb123]

actually the price has come down quite a bit. back in jan i can get it for about $950. i just checked and now its going for $650. for 146GB 15k rpm 4gbps fc drives

[tomathome]

tonyw,

Have you checked out company Eqaullogic? see website www.equallogic.com.

Please note I am not a rep for them. However I know that they have a great product especially with VMWARE based needs.

See link: http://www.equallogic.com/solutions/

http://www.equallogic.com/uploadedFiles/Resources/Product_Documentation/PS_arch.pdf

Here are some key points on their product versus DELL EMC:

• CLARiiON products max out on capacity/ performance forcing disruptive box swap upgrade

• PS Series system resources scale linearly as more disk drives are added

• EqualLogic provides automatic load balancing across controllers, caches, disks, array ports, server ports

• Cloning, replication, host provisioning, and disaster recovery capability built into each array at no extra cost

• Highest performance (outperforming CLARiiON) in independent Network Computing evaluation

• Simple intuitive provisioning with automatic data layout

• Easy to expand volumes online across additional drives

• AX cannot load balance across disks or controllers

• The performance of any one volume is limited to 3 to 7 physical disks.

• Volumes cannot be moved between disks or between controllers.

• Volumes cannot span multiple RAID sets.

• Each set of disks is a separate island to manage

• Only one snapshot per volume. Only 8 volumes can have a snapshot

• AX snapshots are only for temporary use during backups only.

o Snapshots cannot be used for instant restore

o Snapshots are deleted automatically if the controller re-boots.

o Copy-on-write snapshot architecture impacts latency and performance of production workloads on the same disks and the same controller.

o Snapshots must deleted to grow a volume and then-reconfigured from scratch afterwards. (While expanding a volume is the time you are LEAST likely to want to delete your snapshot.)

• Cannot make a full copy a volume

• Cannot make a full copy of a snapshot

• Cumbersome process to assign snapshot capacity to a volume. Space on disks owned by the other controller cannot be used for that volume.

Key points versus IBM, good product however...

Greater scalability

• DS4x00 products max out on capacity/ performance forcing disruptive box swap upgrade

• PS Series system resources scale linearly as more disks and controllers are added, regardless of generation

• EqualLogic provides automatic load balancing across controllers, caches, disks, array ports, server ports

Advanced, dynamic Tiering and Pooling

• Migrate data between separate pools of different types of EqualLogic hardware online.

• When migrating, the snapshots move also with the data instead of being deleted.

• Mix drive and RAID types in the same pools (or SAN)

Advanced features overcome classic Engenio/IBM provisioning pain points

• Simple intuitive provisioning with automatic data layout

• Easy to expand volumes online across additional drives

More advanced data protection and disaster recovery tools

• Cloning, replication, host provisioning, and disaster recovery capability built into each array at no extra cost

Better performance

• Proven out in customer hands-on evaluation and real-world benchmarks

• Superior virtualization makes better use of available physical assets.

• 25-75% premium for disk/shelf upgrades after the sale

• Disruptive and costly box swap upgrades required to scale performance and capacity

• System upgrade results in additional costs for software licenses and service contract upgrades

• Lacks EqualLogic advanced pooling features to efficiently mix new and old assets (see Selling Points)

• Copy-on-write snapshot architecture slows production.

• Unlike other vendors, each additional snapshot of a volume requires extra copy-on-write activity even if there is already another snapshot of the volume.

• Only 4 snapshots per volume. Note: “Inactive” Flashcopies contain no actual data and are not snapshots.

• Each additional snapshot requires a separate pool of reserve space.

• Difficult to grow snapshot space: space must be contiguous and is limited to the same RAID set as the primary volume.

• No instant-restore from snapshot option; proper recovery requires waiting while copying all the data

• No instant full volume copy. You must make a snapshot and then wait while the snapshot is copied.

• No snapshot scheduler.

• Snapshots do not appear to have mirrored cache protection from controller failure or reboot; intended to for temporary use only.

• Cannot balance IO across different generations of disk and controllers and RAID

• In most path failover scenarios, users must re-balance the volumes across controllers after the path is repaired

I do not want to overstep here, however having some alternatives is nice to have.

Good luck,

Tom

[vmcms]

Dell PowerVault MD3000i

This is brand new. I'm on the list for an eval. Supposedly supported in ESXi 3.5.

SAS and iSCSI.

I just finished a job with an AX150 and I think it tops out at 6TB? with no option for expansion. But it was 15k with fc switches and cards.

[tdubb123]

i check the pricing on equalogic and its way way expensive compared to even fc products espcically the ibm ds4700 fc. and its only iscsi with sata drives. why is it so expensive even for the lowest end model ps70e