Configuration review (2xHP DL380G5, P600 SAS, MSA50)

[s_buerger]

Hello,

we are going to implement our first VI3-System. Currently we play with VMWare Server and the developers are not amused with the speed of the system.

First we wanted a SAN-Solution, the MSA1500 doesnt have a good enough performance i read here. The EVA4000 is currently too expensive for our management.

So in the first step we want to go with the following solution (with the option to add a san if this becomes necessary):

2 DL380G5 (2x Quadcore, 4x1gb builtin ram) with the same config:

4x4GB Kingston RAM (so 20GB RAM per server)

1 P600 Controller (inkl. PCI-X Cage and 512MB Cache Upgrade) because the P800 isnt supported yet!?

1 MSA50 with 10 146GB SAS 10krpm as RAID10 for vmfs

2 72GB SAS 10krpm in RAID1 for System and Templates

6 146GB SAS 10krpm internal in RAID5 for Backup because i didnt have SAN to VCB

So i have 2 same Systems. We didnt have SAN so currently we cant use VMotion, HA, DRS and VCB, so we use 2 VI3 Standard 2P licenses plus 1 Virtual Center (simple Active Directory Authentication and good Performance Logging).

As i know for now we can put 2 MSA50 on 1 P600 controller. So i think if we have any hardware problem with a server we can shutdown booth servers dock the 2 MSA50 on the functional server and have access to all vms and can run until i have repaired the system (if the resources on 1 system are enough for all vms). Does anyone know if this is true?

Currently, we want to run productional systems on one server (sharepoint, webservers, ISA, firewalls, WSUS, antivirus, etc.) and test systems (we have many developers and consultants that want to test software/configurations) on the other. So we can also shut down the test system in failure of the production hardware.

I hope i can run 10-15 vms on the production and 20-30 vms on the test system.

Is there anything wrong with this setup? Would you consider a different setup?

My backup strategy is that we backup data over network to our dlt loader accourding our current backup stragey, then we make snapshots when we change configuration or patch vms, then when we have to reboot this vms we make a manual copy of this vm to the 6x146GB-RAID5-Backup. Is there a better solution? Our budget is full so only cheap solutions here please.

I hope when we get this thing running great, we can get a san sometime.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

[SyverDude]

See notes inserted . . . Jon

Hello,

we are going to implement our first VI3-System.

Currently we play with VMWare Server and the

developers are not amused with the speed of the

system.

First we wanted a SAN-Solution, the MSA1500 doesnt

have a good enough performance i read here. The

EVA4000 is currently too expensive for our

management.

You might want to consider some kind of shared iSCSI Storage solution so you can take advantage of HA and DRS. You just need Gig Switches and iSCSI Storage in order to do this.

Equalogics is very popular midrange storage.

So in the first step we want to go with the following

solution (with the option to add a san if this

becomes necessary):

2 DL380G5 (2x Quadcore, 4x1gb builtin ram) with the

same config:

4x4GB Kingston RAM (so 20GB RAM per server)

Good, Memory is many times the limiting factor. You should add up your memory requirments and see if it fits.

1 P600 Controller (inkl. PCI-X Cage and 512MB Cache

Upgrade) because the P800 isnt supported yet!?

1 MSA50 with 10 146GB SAS 10krpm as RAID10 for vmfs

2 72GB SAS 10krpm in RAID1 for System and Templates

6 146GB SAS 10krpm internal in RAID5 for Backup

because i didnt have SAN to VCB

So i have 2 same Systems. We didnt have SAN so

currently we cant use VMotion, HA, DRS and VCB, so we

use 2 VI3 Standard 2P licenses plus 1 Virtual Center

(simple Active Directory Authentication and good

Performance Logging).

Even if you do not have HA and DRS, a shared storage solution can buy you benfits for restarting guests on an alternate server if an esx server is broke, or you need to plan an outage, you can free up a server for maintenance by moving the guests to another system.

As i know for now we can put 2 MSA50 on 1 P600

controller. So i think if we have any hardware

problem with a server we can shutdown booth servers

dock the 2 MSA50 on the functional server and have

access to all vms and can run until i have repaired

the system (if the resources on 1 system are enough

for all vms). Does anyone know if this is true?

I have not used the configuration you are talking about but it sounds reasonable.

Currently, we want to run productional systems on one

server (sharepoint, webservers, ISA, firewalls, WSUS,

antivirus, etc.) and test systems (we have many

developers and consultants that want to test

software/configurations) on the other. So we can also

shut down the test system in failure of the

production hardware.

I hope i can run 10-15 vms on the production and

20-30 vms on the test system.

Is there anything wrong with this setup? Would you

consider a different setup?

My backup strategy is that we backup data over

network to our dlt loader accourding our current

backup stragey, then we make snapshots when we change

configuration or patch vms, then when we have to

reboot this vms we make a manual copy of this vm to

the 6x146GB-RAID5-Backup. Is there a better solution?

Our budget is full so only cheap solutions here

please.

I hope when we get this thing running great, we can

get a san sometime.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

A shared iSCSI San solution may not be much more expensive than your other storage. What it allows you to do though might be enough of an advantage, as you can take advantage of DRS and HA if the need in your business demands it.

Hope this was helpful

Regards,

Jon

[s_buerger]

You might want to consider some kind of shared iSCSI

Storage solution so you can take advantage of HA and

DRS. You just need Gig Switches and iSCSI Storage in

order to do this.

Yeah, we saw this too, but we didnt know if this scale very well, and we would prefer HP-Hardware, so the only solution was msa1510i and i didnt know if there is the same performanceproblem.

Hope this was helpful

I hope that HP will build a iSCSI-Solution so we can reuse the MSA50 with all that harddrives, if eva4000 isnt coming sometime.

I hope i dint get problems without putting hot spare in the MSA50, without hotspare i can use all 10 drives for raid10, with hotspare i can only use 8. I think i would put a spare in my serverroom and hope that not 2 drives in the same raid1 would crash at the same time...

Ive also put 2 intel 1000 pt server dual port pcie nics on the list, they are not so expensive, so i can build extranet (without vlan) and with failover/loadbalancing.

any more suggestions?

[oreeh · Accepted solution]

First we wanted a SAN-Solution, the MSA1500 doesnt have a good enough performance i read here.

This depends on the number of ESX hosts you want to connect to it.

Just get a test unit from HP and try it.

Two hosts are not a problem and even four will do fine in most cases.

[xylog]

Do you have the battery backup module for your raid controller? This will enable write caching...

[s_buerger]

Yes, the internal P400 comes with 512MB BBWC for the performance model of the dl380g5, and for the P600 we get the 512MB BBWC upgrade.

I read there is a read/write cache level percentage setting. Any suggestions about this?

The p400 is the system raid1 and backup raid5, the p600 has the vms in raid10.

Now i haven't enough time to test a msa on this setup, but i will look forward to do this (or the eva4000) when i get this system running.

thanks for all your suggestions

[rbergin]

Seriously consider the ISCSI option - if you are going to have the two physical hosts (2 DL380's) and all that RAM (20 GB), then you will want to put in a entry-level SAN (ISCSI).

How much of your budget is the Disks?

A switch and ISCSI SAN and dedicated ISCSI network dapters is about $15-20k.

I am confused - are you licensing VMotion, HA, DRS and VCB but not using it because no SAN or is the V3I standard not include those options?

Thanks,

Rob

[s_buerger]

Currently we want to go with hp hardware only (we have experience with that) and so we have only one point of support (or two with vmware).

So the only option for now is a msa 1510i, and i didnt see enough posts about this here. but we will rethink about this.

No, i mean because i haven't any san we will buy the standard editions.

[s_buerger]

Hi,

now its time to reconfigure / upgrade our vi3 environment.

the management gave permissions for san, so i went to hp germany to learn all about eva4000.

It seems that its only a nice thing when you need a lot of storage, not only 2-4tb that we need.

And you have to run a management software on a system with fc-connection only to manage and monitor your eva,

and you have to pay additional license for every terabyte of that expensive harddisks you put in.

And you have to pay for snapshots also per terabyte,

and a field installationkit is needed when you dont also buy a hp rack,

and so on.

Now i reconsider to move to iscsi without hp.

I read here that a lot of people have or had trouble with their msa1510i and i dont like that "single controller only" thing in the san guide.

I hoped that there will be a hp solution by now that we can reuse our msa50 stuff, but that seems only possible with sanmelody or other software things. So i have to find a new role for that msa and expensive p600 controller pair. Maybe a software iscsi storage (open-e or sanmelody based) as a mirrortarget...

I read only good stuff about the equallogic sans, so i'm currently get quotes for that, hope that there are onsite demo sessions possible in germany.

I read also that qlogic hba vs. esx software initiator is not so clear. Is it okay to use the esx software initiator with 2 intel dualport pt1000 pcie cards per esx? How many perfomance does that software thing need?

As san switches i consider to use 2 3com 16port 2916 baseline plus. Will this fit?

So for now i think we should go with iscsi and a PS3700, if the price will be okay.

Any suggestions about that?