kgottleib
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Enthusiast

vSphere Web Client is so bad that my experience managing and supporting VMware has turn to &^#$%@

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Purpose of this post is simple and obvious...  bring back development to thick client.  THANKS!

719 Replies
franktroeger
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Have you changed the default domain in SSO Config?

I have configured it several times but i dont know the bug that you have to put the domain in front of Username.

Just for additional domain Backends, because you can have only one Default.

Normally Default is localos but you can configure it.

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adamjg
Hot Shot
Hot Shot

franktroeger wrote:

Have you changed the default domain in SSO Config?

I have configured it several times but i dont know the bug that you have to put the domain in front of Username.

Just for additional domain Backends, because you can have only one Default.

Normally Default is localos but you can configure it.

Yep, been there done that. I think it might have to do with the fact that we have a parent forest/domain (ex. adam.org) and our standard domain is a subdomain (ex. sub.adam.org).  I had a case open for a long time because the AD integrated option wasn't working for us, but they put a fix in a few months ago for it.  Unfortunately that "fix" now introduces this issue where we have to put a domain name in front of it.  It does work as long as the checkbox is available because it forces the SUB\<username> but if that checkbox doesn't work the user has to add it manually.

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franktroeger
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Enthusiast

Thank you for the explanation, now i am aware of this possible bug if i face it in the real world.

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markzz
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Enthusiast

It's possible you have not created your domain as a LDAP identity source and also made it the default authentication/identity source

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Morgenstern72
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Enthusiast

Hooray Smiley Sad

Since we have a strict No-Flash-Policy in our institute Chrome is the only browser we can use for the web client.....

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Petter_Lindgren
Contributor
Contributor
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Morgenstern72
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Request a product feature -> submit -> nothing happens

"We have a strict non-flash policy in our institute. Today chrome did not work anymore with the web client. We really need a stable full featured native client for windows. The web client is not only slow and unstable but built on Flash, which is dying on all platforms."

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ServerBiz
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Contributor

I have to agree with this post, today the flash interface crashed about 10 times in a row... apparently "right-mouse" causes it to crash 😕 And just seeing that clock move slower than I move my mouse makes me cringe, the lag is horrible Smiley Sad

Out of curiosity, why abandon a perfectly good interface like the vSphere client for windows? I can see how an API-based system could work nice, but why Flash when you could have made a slick HTML5 interface?

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dennisluvm
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Enthusiast

vSphere 6 Client Integration Plugin does not have any NPAPI dependancy, so vSphere 6 is not affected by Google's decision.

ServerBiz, the crashing behavior you describe may be covered in a RN somewhere, but if you cannot find any note specific to your error, I would encourage you to contact support.

Thank you for recognizing our original intent with the Web Client.  The reason it is in Flash is because when development started, and was completed, HTML5 was not finalized, or as mature as it is today.  That decision was made many years ago, and by making that choice we made a commitment to that platform so that our partner ecosystem would have the confidence in moving to it.  I made a few more comments on my blog post regarding this transition as well.  Rather than replicating the test I will just link it: vSphere 6 Web Client | VMware vSphere Blog - VMware Blogs

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ServerBiz
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Contributor

Most of the time I try to use the Windows client, it usually does what I need to do... I found this thread when I googled "vSphere web client sucks" after it crashed for the Nth time in a row after I have been struggling with VDP for the past two days. I have wasted so much time on VDP and support mails I am about to give up and look for a different backup solution. I have only just recovered one of my vm's that was stuck in a locked stated after VDP crashed while doing a backup.

I understand the decision to stick with a certain technology, but Flash is a dead end... the tech is dying, no one likes Flash... it's one of those technologies that became big because there were no real/good alternatives.

Locally the web interface works fine (except for the crashes) in Firefox, the cursor is just quite laggy. When I use the web interface in IE I need to use the developer tools and select and older version of IE, otherwise the plugin doesn't work. With Chrome I also have problems with the plugin. Connecting to the console doesn't work either... sure, I can start digging through log files to hopefully find a solution. But the thing is, I was used to an interface that worked... and as a developer I really don't like Flash... so I just use the Windows client when I need to access the console.

I have read your blog, it sure sounds promising... I sincerely hope it is as good as you say it is, but I am very worried about upgrading my current setup. Once I upgrade there is no way back and I am stuck on the web interface Smiley Sad

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dennisluvm
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Enthusiast

Regarding upgrading, there are two things to note.

You can create a vCenter 6 installation alongside your existing vCenter's without touching them, if you currently use external SSO.  More details here: Mixed-Version Transitional Environments in vCenter Server for Windows Upgrades

This environment would let you try using the new Web Client, but not require you upgrade any of your existing infrastructure except for the external SSO (which must be upgraded to vSphere 6 Platform Services Controller)

Also, the desktop client is still available in vSphere 6, so if you find that the vSphere 6 Web Client is still insufficient in some parts, you can still fall back.  You also get additional benefits in the vSphere 6 desktop client, as it can now edit higher VM hardware versions, but only features that were previously supported (for example, you can edit a VM with hardware version 10, but you can only change the settings that were supported in hardware version 😎

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Morgenstern72
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Enthusiast

Our 5.5 vsphere server is a VM. Can I upgrade the server (and client to 6) without upgrading the ESX hosts? I do not believe that the base of 6 is production stable (too many bad news from consultants and seminars) but I ould really like to try the new web client.

And could I fall back to a backup of this VM if the upgrade goes wrong or the new client gives us more pain than the old?

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Bleeder
Hot Shot
Hot Shot

Is there any way to disable the automatic grouping of objects like Virtual Machines when there are 20 or more listed?  I don't rememeber the thick client ever doing anything like this..

See here for context:

https://communities.vmware.com/thread/508460

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dennisluvm
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Enthusiast

Hi Morgenstern72,

There is no need to upgrade your ESX hosts.  vSphere 6 is backwards compatible with most versions of ESXi, check the official compatibility matrix to confirm against your specific version: VMware Product Interoperability Matrixes (select  vCenter Server -> VMware vCenter Server, version 6.0, and then on section 2 select Platforms->VMware ESX/ESXi)

If you take a snapshot of your vCenter VM, you should be able to restore it whenever you like just like any other VM.  I would recommend consulting the vSphere 6 installation/upgrade guide to see the recommended steps though: vSphere 6.0 Documentation Center

Hi Bleeder,

In vSphere 5.5 there's no way to change this.  However, in vSphere 6 you can make an edit to your webclient.properties file to increase these limits (search for aggregationThreshold).  I forgot about this one, so thank you for reminding me, I have now added it to the tips at http://www.tiny.cc/webclientwiki (leads to https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/VSphere_Web_Client)

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kgottleib
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Enthusiast

Attention all subscribers to this thead about the WEb client and its issues and problems, and our movement to convince VMware to take head out of A**... 

Read this post below - it pertains to a feature that is only available in the web client and not C#...  

Waht feature you ask?     EVC Ivy Bridge mode...   yes, that's right, it can only be enabled and configured via web client, and once you enable the EVC in web client for IVY bridge it still shows up as disabled in the standard C# client!     WOW!  Wait to go VMware!     

https://communities.vmware.com/message/2500821

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franktroeger
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Dennis no offence but you and Matt Dreyer sound like tech students. it like "oh we got a unusable tool. go to wiki.google.try-and-error.com to make your admin tool work"

What do you think is neccessary for succesful administration of a huge infrastructure.

You argue like this:

1. 10k users can manage 1 million hosts and applications from one single webpage

2. this single webpage should be able to scale and fit into cloud

3. every user should be able to high end customize his gui

4. and scale out should be achived with caching in the browser and in the inventory service

5. platformindependence, browserindependence and same enduser expirience on smartphone, desktop and tablets on different os

For me successful manage a huge infrastructure means:

1. a reliable client without refresh or most bad with login again because your performance boost in 6.0 seems to kill the ability that refresh is reliable too

     I wokred with some guys in a lab on 6.0 and i made some storage change and i tried to refresh but it just did nothing show old data all time i had ro relog in and there we go refreshed data

    Adittionally i have seen snapshot issues in 6.0 if acronis backup takes snapshot sometimes the vm is inresponcible after the api fail to create a snapshot

2. Standardisation, in a huge environment you need a standard ui everyone is familiar with and not something like "oh your button is in the left corner i didnt recognize it"

3. solid invest in education and slow changing of user interface

     because our company and many others have spend lot of money in education and you started with 5.0 to bring out failed applications and gui to tell us next release "oh we did it in another way, please drop all your know how"

It is sad that the web client is unreliable and that we had to wait 5 years to get a par in speed and not equal in reliability or technologie state of the art client. (see chrome took away the NPAPI support and by the way chrome is the one browser which is not supported but was fast with this client)

But now you say "oh we will make it complete different over several years for companys with 1000 admins connecting simulatiously to 10 vcenters to manage 500000 user and 500000 vms"

To speak the truth i do not know such a company. and  i know companys who have 3000 esx hosts there are not 1000 admins and they are not all managed in one single vcenter.

Because no one wants to deal with a single point of failure like this thats like your 4tb ram support in vms, deal with it thats a feature for max 1% of your customer same with your scale argument for your webclient.

I am doubt about the ability of the webclient to handle this workload because i cant use it in 2 man 2 host 4 vm lab environments
.

Dennis you and Matthew dryer should be aware of the fact you are the leader and you are not a cheap one.

If i want a student community project i go to XEN or Proxmox, if i payed thousand of dollars i want a usable product and not 2 years of excuses why the webclient is shit and why you choose flash.

We just dont care you have to deliver a useable product but you do not since 5.1 and i can tell you this means you dont get rid of your problems for more than one Year.

This tool is not Excel where anyone knows that it is enduser and shit.

Sorry for the clear word but we suffer for 1% of your customers and they have no benefit of this webclient stuff too.

So where is the sense

Never the less

Have a nice weekend and thank you for listening to us.

But you should make matthew listening and change his mind or maybe he want to go to oracle or microsoft gui team or best idea citrix.

ps please recreate a client that is independent of third party like browser or java updates.

Isolation makes a possibility to freeze the code fit for your environment.

And why you cant create a c# client that use loadbalancing in the db like

1k clients ------>  loadbalancer (optional) --------------> one to several vpx on vcenter  as much as you need to handle the 20k requests of the 1000000000k admins working simultaniosly -----------> sync replica db for scale out (one service on each db host which makes a refresh request on each active connection found in database for inventory changes push on demand not pull no autorefresh)

dont get me wrong but i am shure it is not possible to have a scaling client who needs two layers of cache and still achive real time data or get rid of refresh.

And last word i have noticed a bug that if you drop out vms of a vapp i cant manage them until i restart vpxa on the host. Is this a known bug? or a issue of my nested environment?

Kind regards

virtualdud3
Expert
Expert


EVC Ivy Bridge mode...   yes, that's right, it can only be enabled and configured via web client, and once you enable the EVC in web client for IVY bridge it still shows up as disabled in the standard C# client!     WOW!  Wait to go VMware!    

https://communities.vmware.com/message/2500821

* * * * *

Have you considered switching to VMware Virtual SAN?  It works just fine with the Web Client.

############### Under no circumstances are you to award me any points. Thanks!!!
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Morgenstern72
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Enthusiast

From the official weekly "Veeam Community Forums Digest", released yesterday

"Basically, even with all the latest improvements made to vSphere Web Client in vSphere 6 (huge step forward indeed), real-world vSphere users with large environments still hate using it. For example, our own QC folks tell me they still find themselves using the legacy vSphere Client whenever possible even with vSphere 6, only resorting to the Web Client when there is no other option. Yes, it is still THAT slower and more cumbersome to use, unfortunately."

This is veeam, a major partner talking. And, to add to this: did you ever talk to a VMWare support guy, that did not want to use the web client? Yes, every single time.

Nothing to add here except: I installed vcenter 6 for the improved web client. Yes, it's faster, but still unstable (I get 2-3 times a day that I should reload the website because...) and not reliable (eg you click one thing, another is selected).

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kwolton10
Contributor
Contributor

I just mistakenly installed Vcenter 6 and the web client, i belived the lies and thought they might have improved it.....they haven't!!

It's shocking! i would happily pay extra to continue to use the old client! It's terrible! And flash...really? Every heard of HTML5? others are using it and have much better management gui's than this! I'm tempted to format and reload the servers with 5.5!!!!

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kwolton10
Contributor
Contributor

Very true, i dread having to administer my Vmware instances now!

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