VMware Cloud Community
SuperSpike
Contributor
Contributor

vSphere 5 Licensing

I took a minute to read the licensing guide for vSphere 5 and I'm still trying to pull my jaw off the floor. VMware has completely screwed their customers this time. Why?

What I used to be able to do with 2 CPU licenses now takes 4. Incredible.

Today

BL460c G7 with 2 sockets and 192G of memory = 2 vSphere Enterprise Plus licenses
DL585 G7 with 4 sockets and 256G of memory = 4 vSphere Enterprise Plus licenses

Tomorrow

BL460c G7 with 2 sockets and 192G of memory = 4 vSphere Enterprise Plus licenses
BL585 G7 with 4 sockets and 256G of memory = 6 vSphere Enterprise Plus licenses


So it's almost as if VMware is putting a penalty on density and encouraging users to buy hardware with more sockets rather than less.

I get that the vRAM entitlements are for what you use, not necessarily what you have, but who buys memory and doesn't use it?

Forget the hoopla about a VM with 1 TB of memory. Who in their right mind would deploy that using the new license model? It would take 22 licenses to accommodate! You could go out and buy the physical box for way less than that today, from any hardware vendor.

Anyone else completely shocked by this move?

@Virtual_EZ
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1,980 Replies
SWilliams1968
Contributor
Contributor

Remember what happened to Novell...VMWare is headed in that direction with this decision...Microsoft will capitalize and that sucks for those of us who have invested so much into VMWare.

Best Regards, Sean E. Williams, CISSP.CHFI.MCSE-Cloud.VCP6-DCV/DTM/NV
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andrew_hald
Hot Shot
Hot Shot

No problem. Glad I could help.

In your edited post you mentioned that you will also be deploying a VDI environment. You might want to check out the vSphere Desktop and View Bundle pricing mentioned here:

http://blogs.vmware.com/euc/2011/07/vsphere-desktop-licensing-overview.html

There are no vRAM restrictions in these products and they could be a more effective way for you to scale your VDI. HTH.

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bilalhashmi
Expert
Expert

With all thats being said here, I wrote up a little blurb on my blog about the issues being discussed here.. I have tried to be as reasonable as I can be.

Thought I will share that with you guys. 

http://www.cloud-buddy.com/?p=391

Blog: www.Cloud-Buddy.com | Follow me @hashmibilal
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Gabriel_Chapman
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Id hazard a guess that given their livleyhoods depending on VMWare that they won't be rocking the boat anytime soon. While I respect the opinions and technical information that Duncan, Chad, Scott, etc. provide, at the end of the day they won't bite the hands that feed them, thats simply human nature. What I do find so odd is a near universal blackout on discussion of licensing from a core group of VMWare bloggers who appear to be writing about everything except the elephant in the room.

A lot of people earn their living through VMWare either directly or indirectly, I don't think you will see much in the way of direct criticism from the pro-blogger/v-evanglists that many of us look to for information and guidance.

I guess my big question is, how could vmware screw this launch up as badly as it has and then be absolutley indifferent to their customer base after the fact. Even during the online session where you could tweet questions to the presenter on the live licensing overview, nothing was answered or even acknowledged.

I'm a very strong supporter of the VMWare product line, but given this latest move I would be a fool not to question further invovlement or recomendation of the product line when other solutions are really "good enough" for 90% of the workloads that are needed.

Ex Gladio Equitas
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wdroush1
Hot Shot
Hot Shot

Gabriel Chapman wrote:

Id hazard a guess that given their livleyhoods depending on VMWare that they won't be rocking the boat anytime soon. While I respect the opinions and technical information that Duncan, Chad, Scott, etc. provide, at the end of the day they won't bite the hands that feed them, thats simply human nature. What I do find so odd is a near universal blackout on discussion of licensing from a core group of VMWare bloggers who appear to be writing about everything except the elephant in the room.

A lot of people earn their living through VMWare either directly or indirectly, I don't think you will see much in the way of direct criticism from the pro-blogger/v-evanglists that many of us look to for information and guidance.

I guess my big question is, how could vmware screw this launch up as badly as it has and then be absolutley indifferent to their customer base after the fact. Even during the online session where you could tweet questions to the presenter on the live licensing overview, nothing was answered or even acknowledged.

I'm a very strong supporter of the VMWare product line, but given this latest move I would be a fool not to question further invovlement or recomendation of the product line when other solutions are really "good enough" for 90% of the workloads that are needed.

We'll see how well they get by when their VCP becomes useless as people dump VMWare by the truckload, partners are throwing a fit about canceled orders, and as of Monday I have to enter serious talks about possibly dropping our partner and our plan to possibly pick up DR services from them too.


And this is only for the people that stay really up to date and can fork over money for their loyalty to VMWare, wait until accounting gets word of their TCO basically doubling.

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devilz666
Contributor
Contributor

Another IT manager just called, very angry man after finding out about the new Vram issue.

Has requested an immediate consultation on conversion from Vmware enterprise to a competing product (which will either be xen or hyperv)

Only day 3 and im sure theres more to come...

I dought even if vmware change their vram policies in reaction to this outrage if any vmware reseller/customer will truely be able to rest on vmware again as in the back of their mind they know vsphere6 might have the same issue again with the next release.

This has truely hurt the entire VM IT world and yet vmware seem to have no response or could care less.

EMC obvioulsy has the idea that they dont want any more SMB customers and unless your a multi billion dollar IT backbone business they just dont give a $hit about you.

They've gotten to big for their boots and its time we all fight back.

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admin
Immortal
Immortal

Just to point out that cloud service providers are on a different rent-a-license pricing model, the VMware Service Provider Program (VSPP). Be careful when making comparisons between cloud service provider rent-a-license and perpetual vRAM licensing programs.

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medic29
Contributor
Contributor

It seems regardless of what model people are referring to there is a substantial cost increase.

Sent from my itouch

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DSeaman
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

A Mr. Bogomil Balkansky from VMware posted a blog trying to justify the vRAM entitlement changes:

http://blogs.vmware.com/rethinkit/2011/07/understanding-the-vsphere-5-vram-licensing-model.html

Given this response, I don't see VMware backing down or making entitlement changes anytime soon. I see no hint of "we are listening to customers and reviewing our model" speak. 

Derek Seaman
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Gabriel_Chapman
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

that was utterly pathetic.

if the goal was to alienate and piss off your customer base with that response, then it was a stellar success.

lets face it, if you're not a cloud provider vmware just doesnt care about you as a customer

Ex Gladio Equitas
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kcpoliran
Contributor
Contributor

For small business that using the vSphere, it's a pain :smileycry:

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shaofis
Contributor
Contributor

Anyone who falls for the "Use our Tool" I feel sorry for.

I don't know how anyone else runs things.. but when I go through and purchase new hardware for my environment I don't count up my current number of VMs... I anticipate my future requirements.

I hope someone at VMWare is actually listening... Flexibility is what made virtualization so prolific... this new licensing model is anything but flexible. And telling everyone to check their current usage is bull crap... because it doesn't take into consideration their already invested resources.

I for one am very annoyed... shame on me for getting scammed into a new 3 year SNS renewal just recently.

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wdroush1
Hot Shot
Hot Shot

shaofis wrote:

I don't know how anyone else runs things.. but when I go through and purchase new hardware for my environment I don't count up my current number of VMs... I anticipate my future requirements.

This is one of the largest problems I have too.

I'm pushing to use a handful of Linux servers for various applications, and the ability to spin up more individual OSes and keep services completely segregated. With a vRAM model it pushes for you to go back to having servers that provide a bunch of services to consolidate on RAM usage because RAM becomes expensive from the licencing standpoint again.

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hjmiii
Contributor
Contributor

I posted it in the comments of that article, and I'll post it here too.

Regardless of how VMware got to vRAM, the allocated amounts for the various licenses were shortsighted. For customers to get the most out of their new virtualization-optimized high-core-count processors for the past year or more they have had to deploy upwards of 4-6 guests per core. In an Enterprise where your average guest uses 2-4GB of RAM a 12 core system today at a conservative minimum would eat up 2 Enterprise Plus licenses. That's today. I ran my calculations, and my current allocations are just barely under what I have licensed, leaving me no room to grow on my existing hardware without buying more. I have a system that I sized and licensed for 5 years of growth last year, and in a year VMware capped my growth.

There's no misconception about having to buy what the hardware supports as Mr Balkansky puts it. The reality of enterprise deployments are that you deploy to the max utilization of your hardware with room for HA, and you purchase licensing that is in line with what you plan to deploy. Therefore yes, if you want to use your hardware to its full potential (a founding justification for virtualization) then you must license to the full potential of your hardware. There's no getting around that by saying that you only need to license what you allocate.

Furthermore, telling customers who bought unlimited hardware licenses under Enterprise Plus 4.x that their supported upgrade path now only gives them a maximum that is at the very low end of what today's hardware is capable is sheer lunacy. Dual socket hardware today is capable of upwards of 512GB of RAM or more. In a large scale cluster deployment you should be getting 70% or more out of your hardware and so would allocate accordingly. The only time an Enterprise Plus vRAM license makes sense today is if that 2 cpu host has less than 128GB of physical RAM. That's a middle of the road deployment, not an Enterprise Plus deployment. At 96GB allocated and in use, my dual socket Intel westmere processor machines aren't even breaking a sweat. I run them today at close to 150GB allocated. And again, that's today. I planned for this system to meet my growth needs for 3 to 5 years.

The only reason I'll sneak by at 93% of my vRAM when I upgrade is because I have a few development small clusters that have to reserve more for HA. The pooling "feature" of this licensing model is my only savior. If I ever want to upgrade the physical RAM on them to match the need of my organization, then I will have to buy more Enterprise plus licenses. VMware has not separated the physical server capabilities from the licensing as they propose because the very nature of virtualization, the very reason we started down the path to VMware, was to use our hardware to its fullest. The very nature of IT is to meet the demand of our customers' growth. VMware has taken away years of growth potential from my company that we previously budgetted and bought VMware licenses to provide, and they level set us at todays low end numbers. People here and in other forums have griped about the impact on SMBs, but I think the impact will be felt even more at large entities that really tax bigger hardware. The cap on Enterprise Plus is too low. Unless they double it I'm going elsewhere. I already have to purchase Windows Datacenter licenses to support installing many windows VMs per host, so a move to Hyper-V is a $0 proposition. I'll learn to live without a few VMware features for that price.

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twindude
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

@mlodge - mentioned cloud rent license vs the new VSPP license - someone should inform all that if the cost goes up for the cloud ISP then the customer cost will go up too.... not sure what I’m missing there!

The gentlemen in this article seems lost, they may not back down but they will lose business! It’s happening right now.

http://blogs.vmware.com/rethinkit/2011/07/understanding-the-vsphere-5-vram-licensing-model.html

What happen to customers are right. the old way of doing business has been lost and bullying has started on a new level! VMWare has preached the "sky is the limit" well i guess not, the limit is your pocket's deepness and their board table.

The model is somewhat stellar if you are on the other end and making the cash. What; is VMware about to not hit there Wall Street numbers?

Look i pay for something doesn't give you the right to control how i use it, if i want to over subscribe my environment then so be it! It’s the risk that I decide if I can take.

Reality is there are other hypervisors that do a good job; most can do the job without VMware. ISP - cloud can't. Others will provide most of the performance as VMware but the cost will come back on the training and learning and migration end.

this will be a big war with people vs big box company....

Some or most of the features of 4.x will do for most and they won't upgrade, they will start to look at other hypervisor before their support runs out. This has happen to Microsoft as well - Linux desktop/apple...  Reality is you will have mix/match environments and tool sets with less people and lost time! Less face it VMware made things somewhat standardized and simpler to maintain.

I agree that most do not do capacity planning and just throw virtual resources at problems but it doesn't make it right and 2 wrongs don't make right!

We were forced by hardware limits on a single server, which was a reason for exploring virtual but now it may be costly to think like this or turn back!?!?!?

I would like to see VMware post their number of sales from Jan to June and then July to Dec… just to see how well things look at the end.

Well for now i will begin to sharpen my other hypervisor skills! I'm sure i will need them as well as my VMware......ones

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shaofis
Contributor
Contributor

The problem is... they probably see this as Win Win... the added prices are probably designed to push people to the cloud.

Just make sure if you move to the cloud you remember this and select a cloud provider who users an alternative.

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scowse
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

This is a capitalist system we live in. A business can choose the high volume/low margin or the low volume/high margin model.

Vmware are now going for the latter.

Many software companies when starting out, rightly or wrongly, take advantage of/exploit the communities desire to adopt, debug and generally donate large quantities of time and effort to make new killer technologies available to the masses at affordable prices.

Once the bugs are removed and the software is mainstreamed then the community is no longer required and the marketing can be directed at those with the bucks.

Vmware is now at this stage.

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wdroush1
Hot Shot
Hot Shot

scowse wrote:

This is a capitalist system we live in. A business can choose the high volume/low margin or the low volume/high margin model.

Vmware are now going for the latter.

Many software companies when starting out, rightly or wrongly, take advantage of/exploit the communities desire to adopt, debug and generally donate large quantities of time and effort to make new killer technologies available to the masses at affordable prices.

Once the bugs are removed and the software is mainstreamed then the community is no longer required and the marketing can be directed at those with the bucks.

Vmware is now at this stage.

Don't know if you've been paying attention, but VMWare has been with those large companies "with the bucks" for awhile, the thing is you don't get rich by spending your money stupidly in a capitalist system either, and will quickly lose everyone, especially those with the bucks.

The only ones they'll keep are the ones without the brains.

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twindude
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

I Second That

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twindude
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Yesterday:

In Gartner Inc.’s latest server virtualization Magic Quadrant, the analyst firm named Microsoft a market leader for the first time (joining VMware and Citrix Systems). But Gartner also noted that, because Hyper-V is free, the channel does not have as much incentive to push it to customers.

http://searchitchannel.techtarget.com/news/2240037753/Hyper-V-Replica-Windows-Server-8-debut-at-Micr...

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