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SuperSpike
Contributor
Contributor

vSphere 5 Licensing

I took a minute to read the licensing guide for vSphere 5 and I'm still trying to pull my jaw off the floor. VMware has completely screwed their customers this time. Why?

What I used to be able to do with 2 CPU licenses now takes 4. Incredible.

Today

BL460c G7 with 2 sockets and 192G of memory = 2 vSphere Enterprise Plus licenses
DL585 G7 with 4 sockets and 256G of memory = 4 vSphere Enterprise Plus licenses

Tomorrow

BL460c G7 with 2 sockets and 192G of memory = 4 vSphere Enterprise Plus licenses
BL585 G7 with 4 sockets and 256G of memory = 6 vSphere Enterprise Plus licenses


So it's almost as if VMware is putting a penalty on density and encouraging users to buy hardware with more sockets rather than less.

I get that the vRAM entitlements are for what you use, not necessarily what you have, but who buys memory and doesn't use it?

Forget the hoopla about a VM with 1 TB of memory. Who in their right mind would deploy that using the new license model? It would take 22 licenses to accommodate! You could go out and buy the physical box for way less than that today, from any hardware vendor.

Anyone else completely shocked by this move?

@Virtual_EZ
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1,980 Replies
J1mbo
Virtuoso
Virtuoso

But there seems to be a missunderstanding here... the reservation does *nothing* unless there is contention for resources, which there isn't.

Re licensing, yes v5 vRAM based licensing is truely insane.  In the 12 months since vTax was announced VMware already got something like 50% more expensive purely because the value of RAM degrades according to Moores law.

So now we're at a point where fully paid-up Hyper-V is half the price of vSphere at least yet has some key benefits, for example the user experience with virtual terminal servers with Server'12 should be much better than on vSphere and of course no vRAM limits.  I don't know about anyone else on this forum but I don't running a datacentre with imposed limits.  Essentially VMware are banking on the big businesses being so tied in as to have little option I think.

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jjkrueger
VMware Employee
VMware Employee

Actually, the reservation, once set, is active whether or not contention exists. The memory is allocated as the Guest OS requests, and is then, effectively, dedicated to the VM from that point until the VM is powered off, at which time, the memory is returned to the VMkernel.

With regard to licensing, I think you're looking at things from the wrong angle.

Look at it from a scenario perspective: I've bought Essentials Plus, so I have 192GB of vRAM to work with, pooled in vCenter. With 3 hosts, that means that, on average, I can allocate 64GB of vRAM per host (the reality is that the allocation will float within the vCenter server, so a host can exceed that). If I want to ensure availability, that means that I'd need at least one host worth of resources to cover the deficit left by the host failure. This means that each host needs 96GB of physical RAM. We can take that a step further, and say that, with 100% usage of entitled vRAM, 96GB per host won't be enough, as in a host failure scenario, my memory would be running at greater than 100% capacity (we've got to take into account virtual machine and VMkernel overhead), so I'd likely build hosts with more than 96GB of physical memory.

Let's add to that the fact that vRAM usage is not an instant check, but a rolling 12-month average, so unless you've allocated 192GB of vRAM consistently over 12 months, there's nothing to worry about.

Now, if more vRAM is needed, a license addition or upgrade will be necessary, sure. But the same thing happens anywhere else - if you want more space in your refrigerator, you need to get a bigger one. If you want your car to go faster than it can go off the dealer lot, you've got to add upgrades. This is not just a VMware-specific concept.

We need to stop thinking about our datacenters in the same light we've always done. Consumption-based licensing in this manner starts us thinking about what resources cost, and help to start getting the business to think about what IT actually costs, rather than just pointing a finger at us in the corner when we cost them money. We're here to support the business. In addition to enabling all kinds of whiz-bang features in the datacenter to support the applications that actually run the business, we need to help them understand that there's a cost to that enablement. This is the first step in a long journey ahead of us as the entirety of the IT services landscape moves toward a more cloud-like model.

You may not be investing in (or even interested in) the ideas of what "the cloud" will bring, but that's most definitely the direction that VMware (and our competition) is heading right now.

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pkuzma82
Contributor
Contributor

I don’t like how my CPU usage is at 10%, but my VRam usage is sitting at 90%. I still maintain that this licensing is a step backwards in hardware utilization. I understand that I can buy more enterprise licenses which will give me more vram in my pool, but at that point I would just buy another host. Why pay the extra money to go with 16GB dimms when you need to buy another license and support for a new host. By the time you run the numbers it’s about the same cost as buying a new host to use to 16GB dimms over 8gb. The main benefit of doing this (or any future dimm sizes) is to save money on the licensing and support. Without that savings there is no reason to buy 16gb or greater dimms thus less utilization of hardware.

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J1mbo
Virtuoso
Virtuoso

This is absolutely the point - the only way to increase vRAM limits it to buy socket licesnes - with maintenance - which are about 4x the price of the physical RAM being licensed.  Is that 'consumption based charging'?  For VMware, yes, for our businesses, no, it's simply added cost.  There is no additional cost other than the physical RAM in deploying more VMs in the cicumstance described, yet VMware are asking for a 300% margin on it.

You need to vote with your feet.  vExperts seem blind to this; I don't understand why.

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hellraiser
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

I’m definitely interested in HyperV 3.0 when it is released – just got a quote for vSphere licences for a new Dell R720 server and they will cost more than £2k more than the actual physical hardware – too dear...

JD

JD
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Dracolith
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

pita_lbc wrote:

Thanks all, it is OK now.

We have to use the reservation, because of Navision and its native database. This system has performance problems, when the memory is not preallocated.

I'm not sure what you think you are accomplishing there, but Memory reservation is  not  "preallocation",

it is  logical assignment.  A guarantee that either the VM with the reservation will not power on, OR

a certain amount of physical memory is not ever used by any other VM. 

If there is no host memory shortage, and a VM is powered on,  the memory is allocated for the VM in exactly

the same way as if there was not a reservation.

There is no performance improvement possible in establishing a reservation,

except when  unused host memory is very low -- and host memory reclamation threshold are reached.

Even reserved memory is subject to transparent page sharing,  unless you turn off that feature on the host.

The host will occasionally scan VMs for duplicate pages;  even with  "reserved" memory; your  "preallocated"

VMs memory blocks are subject to being merged  and shared pages in other VMs.

The reservation still ensures the memory savings are unusable.

And memory reservations _can_  create artificial memory contention with other VMs,

or the host itself,   because that  reserved bit has to be kept idle

(even if normal transparent page sharing has reclaimed that bit of memory).

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J1mbo
Virtuoso
Virtuoso

Just received this from vmware:

At VMware, we’re on a mission to devote the same energy and focus to our relationship with you as we give to our technology. We want to prove that you don’t have to choose between great technology and great service. We can deliver both.

In a few weeks, we'll be asking you to help set our priorities: what we’re doing well, what we need to change, and how we can do better.

Since they ask - there's something that springs to mind...

Anyway, the big problem with vTax for vmware is how they can stay competative since the per-GB pricing is obviously a moving target relative to the value a GB, so now they're left with the situation that they have to at some point increase the limit, without upsetting existing customers. So what would happen to customers that get their license codes on 31-May with say 64GB limit, and those that purchase a day later and get 128GB limit?

My guess is that limit revisions will be coupled to major version releases BUT once that precident is set then customers are deterred from buying mid-way through the product lifecycle because the limits are restrictive until the next version and in any case they won't commit to increases in writing because they want your business now.  On the other hand they say it affected only 5% of customers when launched (and no doubt many more by now) - the credibility problem being that IF that was the case, so why bother with all the complexity anyway?

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M000
Contributor
Contributor

Look at it from a scenario perspective:  I've bought Essentials Plus,  so I have 192GB of vRAM to work with, pooled in vCenter.  With 3 hosts,  that means that, on average, I can allocate 64GB of vRAM per host (the  reality is that the allocation will float within the vCenter server, so a  host can exceed that).  If I want to ensure availability, that means  that I'd need at least one host worth of resources to cover the deficit  left by the host failure.  This means that each host needs 96GB of  physical RAM.  We can take that a step further, and say that, with 100%  usage of entitled vRAM, 96GB per host won't be enough, as in a host  failure scenario, my memory would be running at greater than 100%  capacity (we've got to take into account virtual machine and VMkernel  overhead), so I'd likely build hosts with more than 96GB of physical  memory.

Let's  add to that the fact that vRAM usage is not an instant check, but a  rolling 12-month average, so unless you've allocated 192GB of vRAM  consistently over 12 months, there's nothing to worry about.

I was informed that the rolling 12-month average rule is not for Essentials editions.  

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aroudnev
Contributor
Contributor

Yes, absolutely,. They built a trap for themselves - as competitors don't have vTAX, and HW became cheaper every year, then competitors looks better and better every year, without any efforts from their side.

I think they all (competitors) apploud new VMWare licensing - they was far behind the train (VMware) and suddenly train slow down and allowed them to take the car (and start to take more cars).

PS. DO you know anyone who buy extra licenses just to cover vRAM? I know few who switch the vendor, no one who paid more to VMware after vTAX was introduced. So, where are the advantages for VMWare?

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Alceryes
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Isn't the max amount of vRAM to count against your license pool set at 96GB? So even if you had 128GB or 196GB in your host it would still only could as 96GB toward your licenses total?

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rickardnobel
Champion
Champion

Alceryes wrote:

Isn't the max amount of vRAM to count against your license pool set at 96GB? So even if you had 128GB or 196GB in your host it would still only could as 96GB toward your licenses total?

No, the 96 GB limit is only per VM, which means that a single VM can maximum consume 96 GB vRAM - even if it should have, say 512 GB vRAM.

My VMware blog: www.rickardnobel.se
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kopper27
Hot Shot
Hot Shot

unbelievable this topic is still going on Smiley Sad

check this article

http://datacenterdude.com/vmware/where-will-hypervisors-be-in-five-years/

and this one for general knowledge I did not know this

http://captainkvm.com/2012/04/vmware-dependency-on-linux/

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EscapeHere
Contributor
Contributor

John Krueger wrote:

Now, if more vRAM is needed, a license addition or upgrade will be necessary, sure.  But the same thing happens anywhere else - if you want more space in your refrigerator, you need to get a bigger one.  If you want your car to go faster than it can go off the dealer lot, you've got to add upgrades.  This is not just a VMware-specific concept.

We need to stop thinking about our datacenters in the same light we've always done.  Consumption-based licensing in this manner starts us thinking about what resources cost, and help to start getting the business to think about what IT actually costs, rather than just pointing a finger at us in the corner when we cost them money.  We're here to support the business.  In addition to enabling all kinds of whiz-bang features in the datacenter to support the applications that actually run the business, we need to help them understand that there's a cost to that enablement.  This is the first step in a long journey ahead of us as the entirety of the IT services landscape moves toward a more cloud-like model.

You may not be investing in (or even interested in) the ideas of what "the cloud" will bring, but that's most definitely the direction that VMware (and our competition) is heading right now.

Nice spin, but it's nothing more than that. You are now charging for something that used to be free. Simple as that. This has nothing to do with cloud computing or changing the way we think. You are now offering less for more, with a tax that none of your competitors have. Yes, you're still a market leader and have best in class products, but HyperV 3.0, XenServer 6.0 and RHEV 3.0 are all huge improvements on their previous versions. The gap is only going to close.

Also by saying, "In addition to enabling all kinds of whiz-bang features in the datacenter to support the applications that actually run the business, we need to help them understand that there's a cost to that enablement". Customers don't care less that VMware don't consider their margins high enough. Simply increasing the price and saying "Hey guys, our developers don't work for free, this stuff costs money" is hardly a solution or a strategy. Your competitors are highly diversified, and willing to accept lower margins. Your strategy to deal with that is to punish the customer, further isolate them and force them to look at other alternatives.

It's a pity, because I really love Vmware's tech, and most of their products. It's great stuff. But Vmware are really starting to remind me of Netscape or SGI in the late 90s. They've become way too arrogant to believe anyone would possibly switch from them, and think they can just do whatever they like. This is two licensing screwups Vmware have done in the past 3 years which has frustrated their customers. Seriously, you can and will be left in the dust just as quickly as people jumped on the Vmware cool-aid a few years back. SGI and Netscape were both darling companies of the tech world in the late 90s, and look where their arrogance got them.

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sampo12345
Contributor
Contributor

Hey everyone!

I have a question about the licensing and I'm quit sure it has been discussed before. Though the thread is over 130 pages and is kind of a pita to read trought.

So I little bit confused about the vRAM entitlements.

I am considering the vSphere essentials kit.

My hardware is:

2X (

     1 cpu, 6 cores

     64gb RAM

     )

So total is 2 sockets and 128GB ram.

Can vSphere essentials pack use all my memory. I know that the limit is 192GB for the pool, but also there is mentioning about 32gb per socket. Is this a limit or just entitlement in the license?

Can I use all my memory with the Essentials Kit or do I need to scrap VMWare and start installing Hyper-V? It does not make any sense to me that I have license for 6 sockets and 192GB RAM but wouldn't be able to use it because I have too few processors.

So can I ustilize the whole 128GB (2 x 64GB) with 2 sockets and vSphere Essentials Kit?

Best regards,

Sampo Saarela

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J1mbo
Virtuoso
Virtuoso

Regardless, just consider what happens when, in 12 or 18 months time, those hosts need to be upgraded to 128GB or more each.

If we're lucky VMware increased the limits by then, but that's not written anywhere nor has it even been discussed in public AFAIK.

If those limits aren't increased, you're straight into an acceleration kit and that $2k RAM upgrade just cost $15k or more.

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sampo12345
Contributor
Contributor

Hey!

That is true. Really might be a nasty suprise some day to notice that the license doesn't cover me in the future.

Though to be honest I'm not sure if it covers me at the moment either.

J1mbo, do you know an asnwer to my original question?

Because if the thing that matters is the vRAM pool and not the idiotic 32GB/socket then I might be covered for atleast next year or so. But if the 32GB/socket is the amount that matters, then I'll start installing Hyper-V.

Best regards,

Sampo

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GeelongRob
Contributor
Contributor

In v5 licensing, number of cores are irrelevant.

Also, you can put as much physical memory in each host as your memory sockets and budget will allow. There is NO limit.

So, what exactly CAN you do?

With Essentials and Essentials Plus, you can have:

Up to 3 hosts

Each host can have up to 2 processors (cores per proc. DO NOT matter)

So, whether or not you really have 3 hosts, you essentally 'have' rights to 6 processors.

NOW, we come to vRAM - the concept that seems to confuse so many.

For each of those 6 processors, you are allowed 32GB of vRAM, or 6 x 32GB = 192GB total.

The 32GB of vRAM for each proc IS NOT the maximum that a proc. can use, it is simply a number used to calculate the total.

(It changes to 64GB in the Enterprise Acceleration kit and 96GB in the Enterprise Plus Acceleration kit)

A licensing report on my current system (2 hosts, 2 processors each) confirms that I have the full 192GB at my disposal.

So, what does this 192GB of vRAM mean?

Simply that the total of all the RAM allocated to all your VMs cannot exceed this.

(A small further rule is that if a given VM has more than 96GB of RAM specified, only the first 96GB counts toward the total).

Hope this helps.

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JimHess
Contributor
Contributor

Rob Schmidt wrote:

In v5 licensing, number of cores are irrelevant.

Also, you can put as much physical memory in each host as your memory sockets and budget will allow. There is NO limit.

This is not entirely true, at least not, for all editions.    I've spoken with someone who updated to  vSphere 5  Update 1.

Upon updating the host became unlicensed,  and vS Licensing reported the license could not be applied because

host memory of 128GB exceeds allowed 32GB.

And it turns out there is a Physical RAM  limit being enforced for them.  They weren't trying to use all the RAM,  they were only at ~10gb vRAM usage

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J1mbo
Virtuoso
Virtuoso

J1mbo wrote:

the big problem with vTax for vmware is how they can stay competative since the per-GB pricing is obviously a moving target relative to the value a GB, so now they're left with the situation that they have to at some point increase the limit, without upsetting existing customers. So what would happen to customers that get their license codes on 31-May with say 64GB limit, and those that purchase a day later and get 128GB limit?

Ha!  Hate it say, but I told them so on day 1 of the vTax nonsense:

http://www.crn.com/news/cloud/240005840/vmware-kills-vram-licensing-will-focus-on-vsphere-cloud-bund...

No doubt some other sting in the tail, but good ridence to it and to Paul Maritz for allowing it to happen - and I, for one, am back Smiley Happy

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aroudnev
Contributor
Contributor

I think, they will need to drop vTAX and change it to HW limitations, eventially. All our new VM hosts has 96+ GB of memory, and as a result we even do not consider VMware ESXi 5 as acceptable optioon, but will stay on 4.1 and then migrate on what we will have instead - if vmWare will have vTAX yet, we will not go with it (except if limits wil be something like 128 GB per 1 cpu for standard).

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