VMware Cloud Community
SuperSpike
Contributor
Contributor

vSphere 5 Licensing

I took a minute to read the licensing guide for vSphere 5 and I'm still trying to pull my jaw off the floor. VMware has completely screwed their customers this time. Why?

What I used to be able to do with 2 CPU licenses now takes 4. Incredible.

Today

BL460c G7 with 2 sockets and 192G of memory = 2 vSphere Enterprise Plus licenses
DL585 G7 with 4 sockets and 256G of memory = 4 vSphere Enterprise Plus licenses

Tomorrow

BL460c G7 with 2 sockets and 192G of memory = 4 vSphere Enterprise Plus licenses
BL585 G7 with 4 sockets and 256G of memory = 6 vSphere Enterprise Plus licenses


So it's almost as if VMware is putting a penalty on density and encouraging users to buy hardware with more sockets rather than less.

I get that the vRAM entitlements are for what you use, not necessarily what you have, but who buys memory and doesn't use it?

Forget the hoopla about a VM with 1 TB of memory. Who in their right mind would deploy that using the new license model? It would take 22 licenses to accommodate! You could go out and buy the physical box for way less than that today, from any hardware vendor.

Anyone else completely shocked by this move?

@Virtual_EZ
0 Kudos
1,980 Replies
sergeadam
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

1) CPUs are becoming more powerfull, able to give us ever greater virtualization density.

2) VMWare's revenue will stay stable or shrink as we use less CPUs to perform ever greater loads.

3) We need a licensing scheme that can scale, is fair, and can be explained to management.

The old (4.1) scheme worked. You paid per CPU and the more features you required, the higher the license price. SnS was essentially based on CPUs.

I could live with the following.

1) License is per pCPU, with a 64GB pRAM allocation.

2) Cost based on edition

3) SnS is a % of CPU license

4) pRAM packs available in 64GB increment. Same price regardless of edition. No SnS on pRAM packs.

It's a reasonable amount of RAM per CPU. It gives VMWare revenue for high density hosts. I can easily explain to management the relationship between CPU, RAM and cost.

And granfather existing customers. SnS can go up, but our current SnS should entitle us to maintain our environments at no extra costs.

0 Kudos
sergeadam
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

And if you plan to overcommit memory, it's going to cost even more.

0 Kudos
jmounts
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

sergeadam wrote:

And if you plan to overcommit memory, it's going to cost even more.

Typically speaking, If you were to run 2 hosts for all your VMs (one being a target Failover) and you speced out 192gigs of VM ram. you'd order your hosts with 224 gigs of ram.

The Price Point I did above is based on that theory. With No Over commit.

You can be a fanboi all you want, but facts are facts. We are all going to get screwed in the end with this new deal.

Esp those that do not want to spend that much $ on Virtualization licenses, and plan to take the Middle Tier.

that 32gig expansion limit is weird and has a crappy offset. It will cost more in the long run then the other 2 plans.

Just look at my numbers, its all there.

0 Kudos
LucasAlbers
Expert
Expert

     We are a top 100 websites (SAS), and we use a small licensed ESXI as a proof of concept(and a small number of free ESXI). Any though of moving our hosting infrastructure to VMware has been canceled as a result of the new license model. Under the 4.x license we were seriously considering moving a ton of machines to free/paid ESXI depending on their purpose.  As you mentioned with a load balancer and redundancy, who cares if one of your web pool goes down.

With the new license, the hosting infrastructure has said emphatically we will NEVER consider VMware deployment.

     Our corporate infrastructure (a completely separate network and security model from our hosting infrastructure) currently runs on 4.0 enterprise plus. We are planning to freeze on 4.0, until it end of life in 2014-2016.  Perhaps a year or so from now we will start to proof Xen and Hyper-V as feasible alternatives. Honestly this make me sad, as I love the VMware product.

     Assuming you are not an idiot, changing hypervisors is something done carefully and with long term testing and proof that it is reliable, so any change in market share as result of this model will take a year or two to become visible.

     Many customers ignored other alternatives Xen and Hyperv-V. As any MBA knows loyal customers are price insensitive up to a point, which is the case with VMware. This is dependent on their customer loyalty, they don't mind paying more because they feel it is a fair deal. Once they feel as though they have been unfairly treated, they get mad, and reconsider price as a consideration.  I can understand the thinking behind VMware's license, new processors allow higher consolidation, we are getting more value from the product, and they want to be paid for that value we receive.  Customers bought on the precept that including using all the resources on their systems now and into the future.  Under their current licensing model, which is pricier than the alternatives (and more feature rich) they were making money hand over fist, revenues up 30% per year…so why the change?

     Looking down the road 2-years when standard 2-socket entry level servers have 20 cores, I can understand VMware's hesitancy to continue the current model. Customers will scale out and potentially need even less licenses.

     Although this is EXACTLY what happened with the 55xx Intel Nehalem chipset, performance dramatically improved for virtualization (So dramatic in fact the Intel chip test team could not believe the performance results they were getting on the first 55xx prototypes and kept retesting.) even with the dramatic improvement in CPU performance, revenues still went up.

Vsphere is the engine that drives all the other growth from all their other wonderful products, and suddenly they want to put the brakes on that growth.  They cannot up-sell on their platform if people don’t ante up to play on their platform. I would consider that a significant portion of their future revenue stream is from the add-ons that are licenses per VM.

I would consider the mantra,  “It’s the platform, stupid.”, get customers on the platform, keep them on the platform and charge them for the value on add-ons that run on top of the platform. Don’t raise the buy-in to get onto the platform to stop them from playing at the VMware table. Make them buy new stuff on the platform, that is the future revenue.

0 Kudos
rjb2
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

sergeadam wrote:

1) CPUs are becoming more powerfull, able to give us ever greater virtualization density.

2) VMWare's revenue will stay stable or shrink as we use less CPUs to perform ever greater loads.

3) We need a licensing scheme that can scale, is fair, and can be explained to management.

The old (4.1) scheme worked. You paid per CPU and the more features you required, the higher the license price. SnS was essentially based on CPUs.

I could live with the following.

1) License is per pCPU, with a 64GB pRAM allocation.

2) Cost based on edition

3) SnS is a % of CPU license

4) pRAM packs available in 64GB increment. Same price regardless of edition. No SnS on pRAM packs.

It's a reasonable amount of RAM per CPU. It gives VMWare revenue for high density hosts. I can easily explain to management the relationship between CPU, RAM and cost.

And granfather existing customers. SnS can go up, but our current SnS should entitle us to maintain our environments at no extra costs.

We could also live with something like this. I think your points about CPU's becoming more powerful and the effect on VMWare's revenue are important. The model needs to be fair and scalable, and I think that is the biggest problem with the new pricing. It needs to be fair because that helps the explanation to management that frees up the cash to buy the product.

The new pricing seems much more risky than what you are proposing. Although it has the potential to huge upside on the revenue side, IMHO it has even more potential to be a loser because it doesn't work for as many customers as they thought it would. And it is really difficult to explain (ex. why do we have to buy CPU's to add more memory etc.). A pricing structure like the one you are suggesting seems like it would have a much higher likelihood of being a win/win. VMWare addresses the fundamental problem that the CPU changes are going to breatk their v4 model and at the same time offers something that stems the loss of their loyal customers.

0 Kudos
wdroush1
Hot Shot
Hot Shot

jmounts wrote:

sergeadam wrote:

And if you plan to overcommit memory, it's going to cost even more.

Typically speaking, If you were to run 2 hosts for all your VMs (one being a target Failover) and you speced out 192gigs of VM ram. you'd order your hosts with 224 gigs of ram.

The Price Point I did above is based on that theory. With No Over commit.

You can be a fanboi all you want, but facts are facts. We are all going to get screwed in the end with this new deal.

Esp those that do not want to spend that much $ on Virtualization licenses, and plan to take the Middle Tier.

that 32gig expansion limit is weird and has a crappy offset. It will cost more in the long run then the other 2 plans.

Just look at my numbers, its all there.

Math is hard, lets go shopping! (for vRAM licenses...)

0 Kudos
Gauchonm
Contributor
Contributor

Great.  Even with full support with Enterprise Plus, our licensing is going to increase 3-4 fold or more to just upgrade what we have.  I need to do some math.

5 production servers runing 4 socket 8 cores with 512GB ram on each.  Busted!

0 Kudos
hmtk1976
Contributor
Contributor

Well, you've got Enterprise Plus.  Our customers got shafted with vSphere 4 licensing: they did not get an upgraded from their Enterprise to Enterprise Plus licenses.  VMware has proven itself to be an untrustworthy partner.  I'm going to push my boss to start evaluating Hyper V and Xen in earnest. As far as I'm concerned VMware is the past for us.

0 Kudos
jmounts
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Gauchonm wrote:

Great.  Even with full support with Enterprise Plus, our licensing is going to increase 3-4 fold or more to just upgrade what we have.  I need to do some math.

5 production servers runing 4 socket 8 cores with 512GB ram on each.  Busted!

yea but how much of that 512GB of ram on each of the hosts is allocated to VM usage? And how much of it do you really need?

From what I can tell, it seems VMware wants you to run hosts in pairs for this change. So you buy licensing for the amount of ram you need (use my 192gigs example from before), Unless they are also planning on selling vRAM memory boost licenses for your vRAM Pools (Which I have no confirmation on yet), then you build your host cluster based on your vRAM Pool requirements.

While the change is going to cost you a ton, it might not be that bad.

For an environment im looking at, to convert the mixed license model to Enterprise in vSphere5, its going to cost just under 20k. thats for 8 hosts, upgrading the current license to Enterprise, and buying additional enterpise licenses for the other hosts comming from advanced+. VM vRAM pool is about 230 gigs.

The big question, is it going to be worth it?

what is it that vSphere5 is going to do/provide that vSphere4 isnt?

While the Docs are looking good on paper, and I know we can do a 30 day trial when its released. I just dont think the new featureset/performance is going to justify these high costs.

Since your in a similar situtation, what is your take on this?

0 Kudos
aroudnev
Contributor
Contributor

Moreover, option 2 can be even cheaper if you have only 2 - 3 servers - you can use essential so you can start with less then &18K. With ESX5 it does not make any sense at all.

(And then, DELL 1950 with 64 GB of RAM and 2 opretty good cpu can be found on the market for approx $4K - which makes this calculations even more interesting).

0 Kudos
hmtk1976
Contributor
Contributor

That's just VMware's bullshit reasoning.  VMware DOES NOT KNOW how much RAM a given customer needs.  They're in the business of providing a virtualization platform, not consulting on how to configure AD, mailservers, SQL servers, ... yet that's exactly what they're doing.  That and talking bullshit.

One of the only reasonable ways of licensing RAM and CPU would be selling vSphere per CPU (and no RAM) for the editions so you can choose what features you need and RAM packs for the memory you need.  RAM packs should be edition agnostic: no separate RAM pack for Standard and Enterprise Plus for example since you would pay for Enterprise Plus features with the CPU license.  And you should not need SnS for RAM packs as over time you'd certainly need to purchase more RAM packs so VMware would continue to have revenue from RAM.

Current users of Enterprise with SnS should get a choice between a free upgrade to either Enterprise Plus or that Desktop thingie since many will probably be using Enterprise licenses in VDI environments.

And just dithc the now irrelevant Enterprise version.

I hope someone's going to have a Ned Stark experience.  Chack!

0 Kudos
wdroush1
Hot Shot
Hot Shot

jmounts wrote:

Gauchonm wrote:

Great.  Even with full support with Enterprise Plus, our licensing is going to increase 3-4 fold or more to just upgrade what we have.  I need to do some math.

5 production servers runing 4 socket 8 cores with 512GB ram on each.  Busted!

From what I can tell, it seems VMware wants you to run hosts in pairs for this change. So you buy licensing for the amount of ram you need (use my 192gigs example from before), Unless they are also planning on selling vRAM memory boost licenses for your vRAM Pools (Which I have no confirmation on yet), then you build your host cluster based on your vRAM Pool requirements.

Because we all run N*2 failovers, right? :smileyplain:


Any cost increase to the already most expensive product on the market is just going to drive people away.

0 Kudos
jmounts
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

aroudnev wrote:

Moreover, option 2 can be even cheaper if you have only 2 - 3 servers - you can use essential so you can start with less then &18K. With ESX5 it does not make any sense at all.

(And then, DELL 1950 with 64 GB of RAM and 2 opretty good cpu can be found on the market for approx $4K - which makes this calculations even more interesting).

Yes and no...

Once you buy into a license model your kinda stuck with it. If you use the 2nd tier, and you start to exceed 80some gigs, you are going to exceed the cost of 2 tier3 licenses.

I can't find much info on how easily upgrading licenses on vSphere5 is going to be. If you dont upgrade your going to be stuck with multiple vRAM Pools with different feature sets.

Its going to get messy - sys admin wise.

0 Kudos
wdroush1
Hot Shot
Hot Shot

hmtk1976 wrote:

That's just VMware's bullshit reasoning.  VMware DOES NOT KNOW how much RAM a given customer needs.  They're in the business of providing a virtualization platform, not consulting on how to configure AD, mailservers, SQL servers, ... yet that's exactly what they're doing.  That and talking bullshit.

One of the only reasonable ways of licensing RAM and CPU would be selling vSphere per CPU (and no RAM) for the editions so you can choose what features you need and RAM packs for the memory you need.  RAM packs should be edition agnostic: no separate RAM pack for Standard and Enterprise Plus for example since you would pay for Enterprise Plus features with the CPU license.  And you should not need SnS for RAM packs as over time you'd certainly need to purchase more RAM packs so VMware would continue to have revenue from RAM.

Current users of Enterprise with SnS should get a choice between a free upgrade to either Enterprise Plus or that Desktop thingie since many will probably be using Enterprise licenses in VDI environments.

And just dithc the now irrelevant Enterprise version.

I hope someone's going to have a Ned Stark experience.  Chack!

BTW: they're basically telling us to "rightsize" our VMs to under vendor spec, which means no support from the vendor till I meet their allocation requirements. Smiley Happy

Cute.

0 Kudos
aroudnev
Contributor
Contributor

Less if you run mostly linuxes.

Prices are much lower for small businesses now - I can find 3 good and under warranty dell 2950 servers, add memory to 64 GB each, purhchase one essential or essential plus license, and have small

VM installation all under $12K with 3 servers, 192 GB of RAM (allowing approx 256 GB of vRAM) and 6 x 4 = 12 cores. So starting price now is pretty low. If they intent on new model, I can do the same with XEN but can't do it with Vmware anymore. So guess what I will do...

0 Kudos
jbarr
Contributor
Contributor

sergeadam describes a plan I could live with. The vRAM entitlements are way too low.

We are long time customers with a decent farm for 40+ hosts. We just deployed a new Citrix farm and bought new lics 1 day before the announcement. Doh!   We plan to add 7 additional servers next year to the Citrix farm.  We have RAM headroom in our main farm for an upgrade to 5.0 but we will need to more than double our licenses in the Citrix farm to handle the memory.  We can leave Citrix farm at 4.x but that is counter to our strategy of staying current.  In the end we will either bite the bullet and shell out the cash or move to a hybrid environment where we run some apps on VMW and some on HV or XEN.  I'd rather stay with VMW across the board but I'm so pissed off by this that I don't trust them anymore.  They are getting too arrogant.  Great product but honestly we don't use many of the features.  Give me scalability, decent HA and VMotion and I'm pretty happy.  

So, I've played with HV and it works OK. I also haven't tried SCVMM or XEN either but now I have a new project over the next several months.

Lastly, I'm also getting sick and tired of the VMW folks and fanboys talking about "doing the math" and "it's not so bad" and the marketing guys passing it off vRAM as better for us.  Bah!  The bottom line is they devalued our current upgrade rights with these low entitlements. 

0 Kudos
aroudnev
Contributor
Contributor

Why negativity?

We do use it, not in productioon but in development. But we have about 64+ GB of vRAM per 2 socket server even now.

We combine

- enterprise/ standard in production

- essential on small prod sites, then upgrade to enterprise / standard on demand.

- essential and free in development (try to purchase someting in East Europe for example - and we have sites there too).

This way we can approbe budgets and purchases. No way to do it with ESX5 model. Of course we will just continue to use ESX4 free version if they insist on model 5 and refuse to sell essential 4 licenses. But I can predict average pRAM per server goingb to 64 and 128 GB in a next year, so we need about 96 - 192GB of vRAM per server in a few years, even more in dev.

0 Kudos
aroudnev
Contributor
Contributor

It is amazing, how VMware destoys their own market even before new product (VMWare 5) was released. And even if they do not prohibit using older VMWare 4 free version (if I download it and requested ## of free licenses I can use them forever, 10 - 20 years; no time limitations; yes, I will lost updates in 2016, so what?... it does work anyway). But this does not help, PR is already so bad that people drop off the ship before it started to sink.

I don't know a better example of the bad marketing. No one even noticed that VMware has clustered VMFS file system as a benefit, has a very price-effective Essential licensing; everyone is sticked with VMWare 5 licensing model (which of course kills any business with them). My congratulations to VMWare marketing department!

0 Kudos
rgard
Contributor
Contributor

Just like to point out to those that think they can combine licenses to get a bigger vRAM pool.  That is not the case.  The combination is by type.  So you can combine your Enterprise together with other Enterprise, but you can not combine Enterprise and Standard/Essential together.  To further the point, if you want to expand your pool of vRam but only need Essential amount of vRAM in your Enterprise pool, you need to buy Enterprise license.

0 Kudos
rgard
Contributor
Contributor

aroudnev wrote:

It is amazing, how VMware destoys their own market even before new product (VMWare 5) was released. And even if they do not prohibit using older VMWare 4 free version (if I download it and requested ## of free licenses I can use  them forever, 10 - 20 years; no time limitations; yes, I will lost updates in 2016, so what?... it does work anyway). But this does not help, PR is already so bad that people drop off the ship before it started to sink.

I don't know a better example of the bad marketing. No one even noticed that VMware has clustered VMFS file system as a benefit, has a very price-effective Essential licensing; everyone is sticked with VMWare 5 licensing model (which of course kills any business with them). My congratulations to VMWare marketing department!

Not true.  I am sure all the storage vendors as extremely happy that VMware made a clustered VMFS out of local disks on each server.  I am sure they see it as a loss of business.

Not only did VMware pissed off there long term customers, they also pissed off there storage platform partners too.

0 Kudos